| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | How to get started as a translator Thread poster: Lucas Pocis
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| On the value of reading books in your source language | Dec 12, 2022 |
Lieven Malaise wrote:
Reading books is always a good idea, but obviously doesn't replace a proper education. A translator is a dissectionist and you can't be a good one without a thorough understanding of spelling and grammar rules. You don't learn those by reading books in your source language (unless it's a grammar book).
Hi Lieven,
I never did any home assignments in my student days. Moreover, I didn't have a single textbook (course book) in the last three years at the university(I lost a couple of books in my sophomore year and failed to return them to the library, so they refused to provide me with a free set of textbooks for the next year and afterwards ).
Instead of home assignments, I've been reading American and British books (paperbacks primarily) and compiling my proprietary Russian-English dictionary by putting on cards all terms and set phrases one couldn't find in the most comprehensive 75,000-word RU-EN dictionary available in Russia at the time. Eventually, I had cards with about 12,000 entries on them.
This approach did not prevent me from graduating top of the class in English back in 1985, while winning the regional English language contest (1983) in the process.
I think that with all the facilities available to language learners and translators (e-books, Rosetta Stone and similar apps, subtitled movies on YouTube, etc., online and desktop EN-RU dictionaries, etc.), one can become a good translator without formal education. For instance, it took me 8 months to master oil & gas terminology from scratch to the level that enabled me to work on Sakhalin III and IV projects for about 7 years through a US-based agency.
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 19:08
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
Vladimir Pochinov wrote:
This approach did not prevent me from graduating top of the class in English back in 1985.
Doesn't 'graduating' and 'top of the class' imply that you followed a formal education? I'm a bit confused.
Look, there are always exceptions and brilliant minds that always find their way, but I remain convinced of the fact that most of us need a formal education to learn to master topics seriously. Let me put it this way: as a foreigner it would be simply impossible to learn to write correct Dutch without some formal education (and yes, there will probably also be exceptions to that, but the exceptions are irrelevant).
| | | | | It seems my story calls for a clarification | Dec 12, 2022 |
Lieven Malaise wrote: Vladimir Pochinov wrote:
This approach did not prevent me from graduating top of the class in English back in 1985. Doesn't 'graduating' and 'top of the class' imply that you followed a formal education? I'm a bit confused.
1) I was supposed to be a high-school EFL (English as a Foreign Language) teacher, not a translator. My original training at the university focused on pedagogical skills, child psychology, etc., rather than on translation.
2) Like I mentioned, I opted for self-study (by reading American and British books and building up my vocabulary).
| | | | Dan Lucas 
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:08
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| A degree, yes, but in what? | Dec 12, 2022 |
Lieven Malaise wrote:
Look, there are always exceptions and brilliant minds that always find their way, but I remain convinced of the fact that most of us need a formal education to learn to master topics seriously.
I think this is generally the case in most disciplines, such as medicine or engineering, but I don't think it applies in translation. Given a choice between a degree in the source language and a degree in translation, I'd opt for the language degree every time. I'd even be prepared to forgo the degree if the candidate had a credible linguistic background.
I'm increasingly of the opinion that the nitty-gritty of translation would be better taught in evening classes by grizzled commercial translators. The core ideas and techniques are not difficult to grasp and none of the try-hard theory is necessary, so three to six months of assiduous study should be more than enough. Here's an Open University introductory course overview:
With a focus on recent research, you’ll develop an awareness of the wider cultural, ethical and professional contexts of translation. You’ll acquire a solid grounding in a range of ideas within translation studies (e.g. linguistic and functionalist approaches, translation as norm-governed behaviour, cultural and sociological turns, gender and postcolonial theories, translation technologies) and apply this to a range of translation activities. You'll enhance your understanding of how this research can be useful in your professional practice, and learn how to use various translation technologies. Most of the above is typical social sciences fluff. At the risk of sounding snide, that last line should probably read something like this:
You'll enhance your understanding of how academics (who have no recent track record in translation other than the occasional novel, and who are accordingly desperate to keep their jobs in tertiary education so as to avoid having to enter or re-enter the competitive world of freelancing) argue that this research can be useful in your professional practice. "Useful" is doing a lot of work here. Can the economic benefit of a degree in translation be quantified? I have never seen such specific research. Even if the benefit could be quantified, how would that benefit compare to the tens of thousands of dollars required for a degree course in translation, and the opportunity cost of sitting in a classroom for three years when you could be earning money? In the final analysis, it is demonstrably possible to be a successful translator without a degree in translation.
You also mention "profound written skills in your target language". I do agree, but I am not even sure this is teachable at the level that matters, and certainly not on a translation degree course.
For the OP, I would recommend (a) immersing himself in the language of the source country by living in the US, Canada, UK, or Australia/NZ, (b) working in another profession or industry in which he has an interest or some kind of competence, and (c) coming back to translation in a few years.
Regards,
Dan
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Lucas Pocis
Brazil
Local time: 14:08
Member
English to Portuguese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Thank you all for your answers | Dec 12, 2022 |
Dan Lucas wrote:
I think this is generally the case in most disciplines, such as medicine or engineering, but I don't think it applies in translation. Given a choice between a degree in the source language and a degree in translation, I'd opt for the language degree every time. I'd even be prepared to forgo the degree if the candidate had a credible linguistic background.
Can the economic benefit of a degree in translation be quantified? I have never seen such specific research. Even if the benefit could be quantified, how would that benefit compare to the tens of thousands of dollars required for a degree course in translation, and the opportunity cost of sitting in a classroom for three years when you could be earning money? In the final analysis, it is demonstrably possible to be a successful translator without a degree in translation.
You also mention "profound written skills in your target language". I do agree, but I am not even sure this is teachable at the level that matters, and certainly not on a translation degree course.
For the OP, I would recommend (a) immersing himself in the language of the source country by living in the US, Canada, UK, or Australia/NZ, (b) working in another profession or industry in which he has an interest or some kind of competence, and (c) coming back to translation in a few years.
Regards,
Dan
Well, i've used my english for a long time, not with proper working, but everyday conversation with people over some years, i also have the TOEFL certificate which i've been told by a friend that it would be nice to have.
I'm doing some changes on my profile and my CV after the constructive criticism that i received here, but maybe that won't be enough, mayhaps i'll try to get in contact with an agency.
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 19:08
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
Perhaps i should have been clearer, but the most important thing in my opinion is that you get a language degree, not necessarily a translation degree, although it would be pretty logical to get that degree if you want to become a translator: it combines language and translation learning.
To give a specific example: I have been following French lessons since I was 11 years old (I don't mean to brag at all by mentioning this, the first words of my very first boss in a translation age... See more Perhaps i should have been clearer, but the most important thing in my opinion is that you get a language degree, not necessarily a translation degree, although it would be pretty logical to get that degree if you want to become a translator: it combines language and translation learning.
To give a specific example: I have been following French lessons since I was 11 years old (I don't mean to brag at all by mentioning this, the first words of my very first boss in a translation agency, who could kill with his eyes and blow you out of the window with his voice, being: "Tu dois absolument améliorer ton français!" (you definitely have to work on your French)) and English lessons since I was 13 years old and continued to do so until I graduated at age 22. As far as German is concerned, I followed lessons since I was 16 and went on a 3-month exchange education program to Germany to immerse myself in the German language environment.
To me it is clear that formal education is a necessity to become a proper linguist. Until a certain level you can 'easily' learn to speak a language by immersing yourself in a chosen language environment, but without formal education your written skills will be a complete mess.
Let me put it this way: if a freelancer starts to translate from a language for which he hasn't followed any (complete) formal education (including in-depth evening courses) than I think he or she is acting unprofessionally and probably won't be a top-notch translator.
Disclaimer: all opinions are my own.
Disclaimer 2: yes, there will always be exceptions that prove otherwise. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 19:08
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
| Different world. | Dec 13, 2022 |
Dan Lucas wrote:
I have never seen such specific research. Even if the benefit could be quantified, how would that benefit compare to the tens of thousands of dollars required for a degree course in translation, and the opportunity cost of sitting in a classroom for three years when you could be earning money?
Tens of thousands of dollars ? It seems we are talking about two different worlds then. In Belgium today it costs you about 1.000 euros per year of study (registration costs) and I have a 3-year degree. In the end it will have been a little more expensive than that (study books etcetera), but I went to school every morning and returned home every afternoon.
And what do you mean with "opportunity cost of sitting in a classroom when you could be earning money"? What country are you from? In Belgium it is very normal to get a degree before you start to work.
Dan Lucas wrote:
You also mention "profound written skills in your target language". I do agree, but I am not even sure this is teachable at the level that matters, and certainly not on a translation degree course.
Your target language is supposed to be your mother tongue and I hope you have had a little more education in that mother tongue than whatever degree course. Or are you referring to target languages that aren't your mother tongue ? In that case you are right, but that is exactly the reason why in my opinion a professional translator shouldn't translate into languages other than his mother tongue.
| | | | | Acting unprofessionally? | Dec 13, 2022 |
Lieven Malaise wrote:
Perhaps i should have been clearer, but the most important thing in my opinion is that you get a language degree, not necessarily a translation degree, although it would be pretty logical to get that degree if you want to become a translator: it combines language and translation learning.
To give a specific example: I have been following French lessons since I was 11 years old (I don't mean to brag at all by mentioning this, the first words of my very first boss in a translation agency, who could kill with his eyes and blow you out of the window with his voice, being: "Tu dois absolument améliorer ton français!" (you definitely have to work on your French)) and English lessons since I was 13 years old and continued to do so until I graduated at age 22. As far as German is concerned, I followed lessons since I was 16 and went on a 3-month exchange education program to Germany to immerse myself in the German language environment.
To me it is clear that formal education is a necessity to become a proper linguist. Until a certain level you can 'easily' learn to speak a language by immersing yourself in a chosen language environment, but without formal education your written skills will be a complete mess.
Let me put it this way: if a freelancer starts to translate from a language for which he hasn't followed any (complete) formal education (including in-depth evening courses) than I think he or she is acting unprofessionally and probably won't be a top-notch translator.
Disclaimer: all opinions are my own.
Disclaimer 2: yes, there will always be exceptions that prove otherwise.
I think you are generalising here based on your own experience. Many people grow up speaking two (or more) languages or spend years living in their source language country. Formal education is one way to develop language skills but it is not the only route. We're all different and the mix of activities that build our skills is different for everyone.
The fields we work in make a difference, too. For specialist texts your knowledge of your specialist field will contribute as much to your understanding as your language competence does.
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Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 19:08
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
| I know, but that doesn't change my point of view | Dec 13, 2022 |
Rachel Waddington wrote:
Many people grow up speaking two (or more) languages or spend years living in their source language country.
That is also the case in Belgium. Around the region of Brussels a lot of people are raised in French and Dutch, and that can absolutely be an asset: they will speak both languages fluently and a lot of jobs are open for that skill. But there is also a downside: they suck at written skills of at least one of the spoken languages because at school they can only focus on one main language (either you go to a French school, or you go to a Dutch school). Often they suck at written skills for both languages, because parents teach them 'their language' at home, and send them to school in the other language. Result: they don't learn to write (properly) in the 'home' language and they struggle writing in the 'school language' because it's a language they don't master well (yet). As a result they don't have a 'feel' for neither of the written languages.
[Edited at 2022-12-13 11:34 GMT]
[Edited at 2022-12-13 11:35 GMT]
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 19:08
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
[Edited at 2022-12-13 11:33 GMT]
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 19:08
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
| I don't agree | Dec 13, 2022 |
Rachel Waddington wrote:
The fields we work in make a difference, too. For specialist texts your knowledge of your specialist field will contribute as much to your understanding as your language competence does.
I strongly disagree. After all these years of translation I know for sure 'specialist fields' are MAINLY hot air. From the beginning I decided to 'specialize in everything'. I translated every single topic I came across and here I am after 22 years, a 'specialist' in engineering, manufacturing, medicine, construction, tourism, legal and financial documents and whatever you would like to add. Do you really believe I am a specialist in all these topics ? Of course I'm not, but I'm capable of delivering a near-to-perfection (perfection itself doesn't exist in our world) translation in all of these fields. Those specialist fields are a fraud as far as I'm concerned: they imply a beginning translator (and you can go as far as 10 years of experience before you can start talking of 'specialized') is capable of almost nothing, which is nonsensical nowadays with the internet.
There is only one fundamental: the language itself. Everything else is secondary thanks to the internet. Possess the natural linguistic skills (a 'feel' for languages) of a translator, follow an education, learn to master Google (you have to have good judgment to make the right choices) and you master 'specializations'.
I remember a translator from the old days, who was actually an engineer that decided one day to become a translator: his translations were always full of mistakes: translation, spelling and grammar errors. But hey, he was an engineer, right ? Well, it doesn't matter a bit if you are an engineer or not if you want to translate: a person with technological knowledge without the necessary linguistic skills will always deliver bad translations, engineer or not. Language, language, language: the only thing that really matters.
Specializations are mainly a legacy from a past where you had to possess a zillion books, had to make dozens of phone calls a day or had to go to a library to gain knowledge about a certain subject.
| | | | | Specialist fields and dictionaries | Dec 13, 2022 |
Lieven Malaise wrote:
After all these years of translation I know for sure 'specialist fields' are MAINLY hot air. From the beginning I decided to 'specialize in everything'. I translated every single topic I came across and here I am after 22 years, a 'specialist' in engineering, manufacturing, medicine, construction, tourism, legal and financial documents and whatever you would like to add. Do you really believe I am a specialist in all these topics ? Of course I'm not, but I'm capable of delivering a near-to-perfection (perfection itself doesn't exist in our world) translation in all of these fields. Those specialist fields are a fraud as far as I'm concerned.
I strongly disagree on this point. By way of example, if you accept a job involving knowledge of molecular biology and you've never read a book on the exact topic in question, you're likely to produce a linguistically perfect translation that is jusy as likely to make a subject matter expert either cringe or start laughing out loud, depending on his or her mood at the time.
Specializations are mainly a legacy from a past where you had to possess a zillion books, had to make dozens of phone calls a day or had to go to a library to gain knowledge about a certain subject.
I fully agree that translators have access to much more information now than, say, back in 1987 when I started out as a professional translator. Personally, I only use one desktop English-Russian dictionary application now (it's Multitran), which replaced a hundred hard-cover and paperback specialist dictionaries I accumulated over the years (all of them have been scanned and imported into Multitran by now). In mid-2015, prior to my moving from Moscow to Zelenogradsk, a Baltic seaside resort town in Kaliningrad region, I donated all my printed dictionaries to the Moscow State University's library.
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Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 19:08
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
Vladimir Pochinov wrote:
I strongly disagree on this point. By way of example, if you accept a job involving knowledge of molecular biology and you've never read a book on the exact topic in question, you're likely to produce a linguistically perfect translation that is jusy as likely to make a subject matter expert either cringe or start laughing out loud, depending on his or her mood at the time.
Because nothing is black and white, and there are exceptions to every rule I explicitely stated that specializations are MAINLY hot air.
That being said I have never refused any text until now because I thought that I wouldn't be able to translate it properly, and that includes manuals of the most exotic industrial machines imaginable and descriptions of rather unusal electrical connectors. Don't underestimate the amount of information that can be found on the internet. You almost immediately find basic information about every single subject (including molecular biology) and once you understand the basic principles of something it's often not that hard to find more detailed information that you need for your translation.
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Lieven Malaise wrote: Rachel Waddington wrote:
The fields we work in make a difference, too. For specialist texts your knowledge of your specialist field will contribute as much to your understanding as your language competence does. I strongly disagree. After all these years of translation I know for sure 'specialist fields' are MAINLY hot air. From the beginning I decided to 'specialize in everything'. I translated every single topic I came across and here I am after 22 years, a 'specialist' in engineering, manufacturing, medicine, construction, tourism, legal and financial documents and whatever you would like to add. Do you really believe I am a specialist in all these topics ? Of course I'm not, but I'm capable of delivering a near-to-perfection (perfection itself doesn't exist in our world) translation in all of these fields. Those specialist fields are a fraud as far as I'm concerned: they imply a beginning translator (and you can go as far as 10 years of experience before you can start talking of 'specialized') is capable of almost nothing, which is nonsensical nowadays with the internet. There is only one fundamental: the language itself. Everything else is secondary thanks to the internet. Possess the natural linguistic skills (a 'feel' for languages) of a translator, follow an education, learn to master Google (you have to have good judgment to make the right choices) and you master 'specializations'. I remember a translator from the old days, who was actually an engineer that decided one day to become a translator: his translations were always full of mistakes: translation, spelling and grammar errors. But hey, he was an engineer, right ? Well, it doesn't matter a bit if you are an engineer or not if you want to translate: a person with technological knowledge without the necessary linguistic skills will always deliver bad translations, engineer or not. Language, language, language: the only thing that really matters. Specializations are mainly a legacy from a past where you had to possess a zillion books, had to make dozens of phone calls a day or had to go to a library to gain knowledge about a certain subject.
I strongly disagree with this. You might feel that you are delivering near-perfect medical translations but how can you possibly be sure if you don't even understand the basics of the field? You could be making beautifully written mistakes that put someone's life at risk. Research is all well and good but it won't help if you are completely out of your depth.
(And the fact that you know of an engineer who turned out to be a rubbish translator doesn't alter this fact).
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 19:08
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
Rachel Waddington wrote:
I strongly disagree with this. You might feel that you are delivering near-perfect medical translations but how can you possibly be sure if you don't even understand the basics of the field? You could be making beautifully written mistakes that put someone's life at risk. Research is all well and good but it won't help if you are completely out of your depth.
Who says that I don't understand the basics ? If I come across a concept or term that I don't immediately understand, I look it up to learn how it works or what it means.
And how I know if I deliver good work ? I've received enough positive feedback the past 22 years to know that. Even recently I received positive feedback from the end client for my translation of some implant surgical procedures, another one of my 'specialist fields'. I can tell you I didn't know the first thing about implant components and how they are supposed to be implanted in a human body. But the internet is a treasure for anyone who is able to avoid the many traps it contains.
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