This guy John../This Trevor guy...

FNO (asker) May 17, 2012:

Showdown time... Despite their factual ocurrence in quite a few places everywhere, I've been getting plenty of it especially on Bonanza (the t.v. series)...

Ty Kendall May 17, 2012:

Grammars mean very little.TRUST the native speaker They often don't reflect actual or current usage, especially more colloquial usage, which prescriptive and even descriptive grammars often often overlook. In these cases, you simply have to learn to trust the native speaker.
I would also agree that the nuance is that "This Trevor guy" is definitely dismissive/would show a certain level of disdain. "This guy John" is neutral and doesn't betray the speakers mood or opinion at all.

katsy May 16, 2012:

Hello FNO From long experience with English grammars for students, I'd say that the use of 'this' and 'that' for non-English speakers is pretty complicated as it is. I agree with the explanation given by Tony for "this guy John," and you'll find the explanation in many English grammars -and I quote (translating from French) "This + noun is often found at the beginning of jokes and oral stories, to introduce the new element one is going to talk about" I would extrapolate from that that putting 'this Trevor guy' gets its slightly derogatory tone from the fact that Trevor thus becomes almost a common, rather than a proper noun. However, a linguist (university specialist in same) would no doubt be able to explain the difference - though I do often suspect them of making it up as they go along!! And if you wish, via a personal message, I could give you the name of one...

Tony M May 16, 2012:

All's fair in love and... grammar I don't think it's really a question of 'fair' — it's just this isn't really any form of special construction, it's just two similar ways of using the words. I doubt you'll find grammar book entries for "A Fish Called Wanda" or "Wanda the Fish" either, but it amounts to pretty much the same thing.

FNO (asker) May 16, 2012:

Points taken, Tony & Daniel. Only it strikes me as unfair that, more often than not, ocurrences a sight less frequent in English are given their entry an ubiquitous status.

Tony M May 16, 2012:

English as she is spoke I doubt you'll find many 'official' grammatical references to this sort of very vernacular language.

It is important to note, however, that although both forms are definitely used, they have subtly different significance, and could rarely if ever be used interchangeably.

"This guy John" tends to imply 'there's this guy — oh, and he's called John, just so you don't get muddled up — '

Whereas "This Trevor guy" doesn't have quite the same implication; the '...guy' just becomes something of a tag, so as not to say just "Trevor" — which might, for example, lead the listener to suppose that it was some specific Trevor that the speaker knows, rather than just some guy he's referring to who happens to be called Trevor.

In the first example, you could leave out the 'John' and it wouldn't significantly change the meaning; in the second instance, you could leave out the 'guy' and it wouldn't either.

I think Darius has a good point, though I wouldn't go so far as to say the speaker despises Trevor — but it can certainly sometimes come across as a bit dismissive (depending, of course, on the surrounding context).

Daniel Grigoras May 16, 2012:

both are grammatically correct The difference in word order is intended for effect and emphasis, or is a means of rendering the speaker's attitude toward John/Trevor, i.e. “This guy John…” is the normal, unemphatic, unaffected way of phrasing, while in “This Trevor guy…”, in my opinion, the word order shows the speaker's annoyance or despise toward Trevor.