| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9] > | Turn-key translations? Thread poster: writeaway
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PRen (X)
Canada
Local time: 12:55
French to English
+ ...
| Well, since you asked.... | Jul 18, 2009 |
ScottishWildCat wrote:
What I clearly would like to know is the exact nature (and average remuneration) of the jobs that are offered through the Turn-key system.
[Edited at 2009-07-18 15:58 GMT]
I "tested" the turnkey system - I posted a 101 word job, from French to English, got a decent translation, and was charged 15.15 cents per word. Unfortunately, I believe the translator was paid 10.10 cents per word, based on the information that was shown in the work order.
I have no way of knowing if proz.com reviewed the translation.
So it looks like proz.com took one third - yup, one-third. I paid fifteen bucks and I think the translator got ten bucks.
Clearly, Henry is now a translation agency and competing with the very people who pay him for memberships. Something is wrong here. Or is there something I'm not getting??
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X) 
France
Local time: 17:55
French to German
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| On the low side... | Jul 18, 2009 |
These 30%, AFAIK, are rather on the low side of intermediaries' gross margins - I am of course speaking about my experience in continental Europe. But, as a translator, I clearly would prefer to be paid 100% instead of 70%... that is, I would not think of working for rates under CAD 0.16 (USD 0.1438 at the current exchange rate), as my agency clients in Québec can accept these straight away.
As an aside, I think that... See more These 30%, AFAIK, are rather on the low side of intermediaries' gross margins - I am of course speaking about my experience in continental Europe. But, as a translator, I clearly would prefer to be paid 100% instead of 70%... that is, I would not think of working for rates under CAD 0.16 (USD 0.1438 at the current exchange rate), as my agency clients in Québec can accept these straight away.
As an aside, I think that a system like the turn-key can only work for a few people and not for the mass of the professionals registered on ProZ, else it would make no more sense.
Laurent K.
[Edited at 2009-07-18 16:41 GMT]
[Edited at 2009-07-18 16:45 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ralf Lemster
Germany
Local time: 17:55
English to German
+ ...
| Would you pay an agency? | Jul 18, 2009 |
Hi Laurent,
These 30%, AFAIK, are rather on the low side of intermediaries' gross margins - I am of course speaking about my experience in continental Europe.
Correct - assuming that the intermediary does more than just shift 'envelopes', 30% would be insufficient.
But the issue is: would you pay the intermediary?
Best regards,
Ralf
| | | | PRen (X)
Canada
Local time: 12:55
French to English
+ ...
| I don't work for agencies... | Jul 18, 2009 |
... so no surprise that I was shocked. But I'm really shocked that, as I said, Henry is now competing with his members. The members are paying him an annual fee to get work at crap rates? Talk about a slippery slope - once the agencies get wind of this they're going to want the translators to start paying them for the "privilege" of getting work.
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Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 17:55
French to German
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Ralf Lemster wrote:
Correct - assuming that the intermediary does more than just shift 'envelopes', 30% would be insufficient.
But the issue is: would you pay the intermediary?
Best regards,
Ralf
I am afraid I cannot grasp the meaning of this question, Ralf. Do you mean:
- as the translator I am?
- as the client I could be?
- ...
Laurent K.
[Edited at 2009-07-18 17:15 GMT]
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 17:55
French to German
+ ...
| As per paying for getting work... | Jul 18, 2009 |
PRen wrote:
... so no surprise that I was shocked. But I'm really shocked that, as I said, Henry is now competing with his members. The members are paying him an annual fee to get work at crap rates? Talk about a slippery slope - once the agencies get wind of this they're going to want the translators to start paying them for the "privilege" of getting work.
this is nothing new. I can PM you a link about that and you will be able to see that some intermediaries request translators to make a deposit before being able to quote (or something like this).
And (yes, I know everybody knows it) well, don't the 2 major world translation groups compete with their own clients by:
- 1) selling CAT tools to freelancers and LSP's alike?
- 2) offering translation services worldwide?
Nothing out of the ordinary, I would say - but not reassuring in any way.
Laurent K.
[Edited at 2009-07-18 18:26 GMT]
| | | | | And to top things off ... | Jul 18, 2009 |
PRen wrote:
I "tested" the turnkey system - I posted a 101 word job, from French to English, got a decent translation, and was charged 15.15 cents per word. Unfortunately, I believe the translator was paid 10.10 cents per word, based on the information that was shown in the work order.
I have no way of knowing if proz.com reviewed the translation.
So it looks like proz.com took one third - yup, one-third. I paid fifteen bucks and I think the translator got ten bucks.
It actually looks like it may have been quite a bit less than ten bucks.
As I understand things, payment is made to the translator's ProZ.com wallet within 15 days of successful delivery (i.e. if there are no complaints).
But, as far as I know, we are charged a fee of 5% for using our wallets. So the question is does ProZ score again or is this already factored into the 33% 'agency fee' levied above?
Withdrawals from the wallet are then only processed by ProZ at the end of the calendar month. Well, it says they are generally processed then. Read into that what you will.
And then, of course, the translator has to pay again to transfer the funds from the wallet to his/her bank account, credit card etc. Wire fees will exceed the amount of the job in many cases (bearing in mind these are all small jobs, for now at any rate), effectively forcing the translator to let the funds accrue on his/her wallet until it becomes viable to transfer them out.
Which leads me to my next question. Where is the interest going that is being earned on the escrow and wallet accounts? It's a small amount on each individual transaction, but all adds up as more and more translators become involved.
And, lastly (for now), so much for minimum fee jobs when wind of this gets around!
Not the best news I'd hope to hear from a site that I -- and many others -- help fund with annual membership fees.
[Edited at 2009-07-18 18:55 GMT]
| | | | Jessica Noyes
United States
Local time: 11:55
Member
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Thank you PRen for checking the new system | Jul 18, 2009 |
You conclude, if I understand you correctly, that the site is paying below-market rates to the translators who do these turn-key jobs. Even more alarming to me is the fact that not only is this turn-key option given top priority on the job posting site, but that the procedure for us to get these jobs is murky at best -- unless it is explained in the thread accessible only to those holding the Certified Pro designation.
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Ralf Lemster
Germany
Local time: 17:55
English to German
+ ...
| Paying member | Jul 18, 2009 |
Hi again, Laurent,
I am afraid I cannot grasp the meaning of this question, Ralf. Do you mean:
- as the translator I am?
- as the client I could be?
- ...
As a paying member of this site.
Hope that clarifies it.
Best, Ralf
| | | | Uldis Liepkalns
Latvia
Local time: 18:55
Member (2003)
English to Latvian
+ ...
No, it doesn't clarify anything and it confuses even me.
As I see it- either ProZ is a venue - as to the best of my knowledge it has advertised itself until now (in which case it doesn't outsource anything), or it is an Agency (in which case it should clearly state that, as well as its conditions - say, will the translation before delivery be reviewed by second translator). As I read at the moment, it seems to me that ProZ has become partially an Agency, but is hiding the fact behi... See more No, it doesn't clarify anything and it confuses even me.
As I see it- either ProZ is a venue - as to the best of my knowledge it has advertised itself until now (in which case it doesn't outsource anything), or it is an Agency (in which case it should clearly state that, as well as its conditions - say, will the translation before delivery be reviewed by second translator). As I read at the moment, it seems to me that ProZ has become partially an Agency, but is hiding the fact behind self imposed restrictions that those not qualifying have no access to appropriate jobs, forums or information about that *at all*.
I have to add that this thread comes as a great surprise to me, as nowhere before EVER have I heard that ProZ.com itself outsources jobs. Yeah, live, learn an die educated...
Uldis
Ralf Lemster wrote: Hi again, Laurent,
I am afraid I cannot grasp the meaning of this question, Ralf. Do you mean:
- as the translator I am?
- as the client I could be?
- ...
As a paying member of this site. Hope that clarifies it. Best, Ralf ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ralf Lemster
Germany
Local time: 17:55
English to German
+ ...
| Sorry, *I* cannot clarify... | Jul 18, 2009 |
Hi Uldis,
No, it doesn't clarify anything and it confuses even me.
I was hoping that my statement was clarified...
As I see it- either ProZ is a venue - as to the best of my knowledge it has advertised itself until now (in which case it doesn't outsource anything), or it is an Agency (in which case it should clearly state that, as well as its conditions - say, will the translation before delivery be reviewed by second translator). As I read at the moment, it seems to me that ProZ has become partially an Agency, but is hiding the fact behind self imposed restrictions that those not qualifying have no access to appropriate jobs, forums or information about that *at all*.
Agreed - ProZ.com's position in respect of 'turnkey' jobs indeed requires clarification. Simply reiterating old statements won't help if there is a fundamental shift in position.
Cheers, Ralf
| | | | Niraja Nanjundan (X)
Local time: 21:25
German to English
| Regarding turn-key/turnkey | Jul 19, 2009 |
Marijke Singer wrote:
Would you trust a service that misspells its marketing slogan?
It should be turnkey and not turn-key...
Sarcastic mode definitely on!
Some of you can't see this, but in the discussion of this feature in the Certified Pro Network forum, Jason, the staff member who originally posted about it *does* , in fact, spell it correctly as "turnkey." I don't know who changed it to "turn-key," but I'm sure it's something that can be easily corrected
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heikeb
Member (2003)
English to German
+ ...
| I wonder about the "qualified translators"... | Jul 19, 2009 |
7.1 - What is turn-key translation? What's the advantage for clients? [Direct link]
Turn-key translation is a ProZ.com service that helps reduce the overhead costs for short, quick-turnaround translation jobs. Just submit the text and payment, and then receive the translation. The system automatically handles routing the work to the most suitable translators, delivering the completed work back to you, and paying the service providers.
Any qualified translator I know will be much too busy with their regular clients to be interested in "short, quick-turnaround" translation jobs without decent minimum charge. Why would anybody want to submit themselves to such a "beck and call" situation?
Somehow, I can't get the image of a translation sweat shop out of my mind...
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 08:55
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam | Exactly, Heike. | Jul 19, 2009 |
Heike Behl, Ph.D. wrote:
7.1 - What is turn-key translation? What's the advantage for clients? [Direct link]
Turn-key translation is a ProZ.com service that helps reduce the overhead costs for short, quick-turnaround translation jobs. Just submit the text and payment, and then receive the translation. The system automatically handles routing the work to the most suitable translators, delivering the completed work back to you, and paying the service providers.
Any qualified translator I know will be much too busy with their regular clients to be interested in "short, quick-turnaround" translation jobs without decent minimum charge. Why would anybody want to submit themselves to such a "beck and call" situation? Somehow, I can't get the image of a translation sweat shop out of my mind...
At first I was a bit ticked off when I read that there are forums that can not be accessed by other paying members who have provided numerous evaluations for colleagues to ensure that they will have the precious P-thing but were too busy themselves to ever apply for their own P. Or had other priorities. The more I read about those "Turnkey" jobs, the more I am wondering: What on earth are you doing??
Especially beautiful: The guys who ask for those jobs are called "clients".
ROFL.
There is a difference between "customer" and "client".
There is a difference between "job" and "project".
There is a difference between "doing some work" and "attending to a client".
If this is what you want - good grief.
I prefer the latter options and I prefer to run my business my own way - with contacts via ProZ who know my name when they send their initial email. With customers who will turn into clients because I will listen to their briefing and because I will deliver products taylored to their needs.
Should I find out that this P-thing is filtering me out from future contacts I will be ticked off beyond belief. ProZ.com then has stopped providing the service and the network that I happily have been paying for.
| | | | | Staff wouldn't touch this with a 39.5-foot pole... | Jul 19, 2009 |
This is the second thread I see today where the staff's contribution is badly needed, yet staff is nowhere to be found near the thread. Strange...
In any case, now I see more clearly why the site's marketing slogan has been subtly changing. I'm guessing the next step will be to replace the word 'workplace' by 'marketplace'.
In any case, I have until next year to weigh the pros and cons of my membership...
P.S.: At this point, the lack of transparency around... See more This is the second thread I see today where the staff's contribution is badly needed, yet staff is nowhere to be found near the thread. Strange...
In any case, now I see more clearly why the site's marketing slogan has been subtly changing. I'm guessing the next step will be to replace the word 'workplace' by 'marketplace'.
In any case, I have until next year to weigh the pros and cons of my membership...
P.S.: At this point, the lack of transparency around here is simply ridiculous. And nice going announcing this rather fundamental change through a mere forum post. An e-mail to all users would have been the least staff could have done. I guess the end justifies the means...
[Edited at 2009-07-19 08:26 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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