| Pages in topic: [1 2 3] > | Job posted offering less than $0.02 per word!!!! Thread poster: Silvina Jover-Cirillo (X)
|
|---|
Silvina Jover-Cirillo (X)
United States
Local time: 06:30
English to Spanish
+ ...
I REALLY think this is a total insult!!!! This person is requesting translators for a book and is offering U$D 1000 for 80000 words. That is $ 0.0125 per word!
Even more sad is that it already has 4 bids. Also, I know this same ad was posted a couple of days ago....In fact, I offered my services. Probably this person thought that the offers were way too expensive and decided to re-post the job establishing the price to be paid for the translation.
I must say that, when ... See more I REALLY think this is a total insult!!!! This person is requesting translators for a book and is offering U$D 1000 for 80000 words. That is $ 0.0125 per word!
Even more sad is that it already has 4 bids. Also, I know this same ad was posted a couple of days ago....In fact, I offered my services. Probably this person thought that the offers were way too expensive and decided to re-post the job establishing the price to be paid for the translation.
I must say that, when I started as a freelance translator, my rates were really low. I think that even nowadays my rates are still average or even below average, but I'm growing as a professional. But, less than $0.02!!!!!
This type of insult should not be allowed here in Proz.com
Thanks for "listening"! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Dinny 
Greece
Local time: 13:30
Italian to Danish
+ ...
| 4 bids... or maybe not. | Jan 20, 2006 |
The 4 bids might have been similar to the one I left a few weeks ago in response to a similar "offer":
0.00 USD with deadline 32nd of December.
If ProZ.com cannot/will not set a minimum rate so that we won't be exposed to these continuous insults, then at least I take the chance to let the agency know what I think about this offer.
It's healthier to take a day off than to work for this kind of rates.
Dinny
| | | | Ralf Lemster
Germany
Local time: 12:30
English to German
+ ...
| Calm down, and please read all the previous topics... | Jan 20, 2006 |
Silvina,
May I suggest to check out some of the many previous topics we have had on this issue? Letting off steam is ok, but why don't you just ignore any business proposal you don't consider to be acceptable to you (nobody can force you to accept it anyway)?
This type of insult should not be allowed here in Proz.com
Please review ProZ.com's stated and published policy.
Best regards,
Ralf
| | | | Levan Namoradze
Georgia
Local time: 14:30
Member (2005)
English to Georgian
+ ...
| Sometimes, I start hesitating | Jan 20, 2006 |
Sometimes, I start hesitating whether this is the site only for agencies and freelancers those from specific states, where translation rates are much lower than even here, in Georgia i.e. the former Soviet state.
Yes, I do remember almost all discussions on setting a minimal rate at Proz. However, despite the fact that we (some of my colleagues and I) do ignore posts like above, the situation continues worsening. Rates continuously keep going down...
As for the Policy, I think it cou... See more Sometimes, I start hesitating whether this is the site only for agencies and freelancers those from specific states, where translation rates are much lower than even here, in Georgia i.e. the former Soviet state.
Yes, I do remember almost all discussions on setting a minimal rate at Proz. However, despite the fact that we (some of my colleagues and I) do ignore posts like above, the situation continues worsening. Rates continuously keep going down...
As for the Policy, I think it could be subject to revision. However, all the above is only my personal opinion. ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
Ralf Lemster
Germany
Local time: 12:30
English to German
+ ...
| Stick to your rates | Jan 20, 2006 |
Hi Levan,
Sometimes, I start hesitating whether this is the site only for agencies and freelancers those from specific states, where translation rates are much lower than even here, in Georgia i.e. the former Soviet state.
It certainly isn't.
A very common mistake is to perceive "the rates on ProZ.com" solely on the basis of certain isolated jobs, when most jobs (and particularly the more interesting ones) are, in fact, passed through the directory and members' profile pages. ProZ.com staff have been working hard to enhance the exposure of profile pages - even I have found two clients through this route, despite the fact that my price level is way above any job I've seen posted here.
Yes, I do remember almost all discussions on setting a minimal rate at Proz. However, despite the fact that we (some of my colleagues and I) do ignore posts like above, the situation continues worsening. Rates continuously keep going down...
Are they really?
Don't know whether you attended the conference in Kraków last November - Henry asked for a show of hands regarding the development of rates, which conveyed a different message.
Best regards,
Ralf
| | | | Levan Namoradze
Georgia
Local time: 14:30
Member (2005)
English to Georgian
+ ...
| They do. :-) | Jan 20, 2006 |
Ralf Lemster wrote: Yes, I do remember almost all discussions on setting a minimal rate at Proz. However, despite the fact that we (some of my colleagues and I) do ignore posts like above, the situation continues worsening. Rates continuously keep going down... Are they really? Don't know whether you attended the conference in Kraków last November - Henry asked for a show of hands regarding the development of rates, which conveyed a different message. Best regards, Ralf
Hi Ralf!
They do. As for the conference in Kraków, I would really love attending, however, when rates go down from 0.12 USD to 0.03-0.04 USD per source word, it becomes almost impossible to me.
[Edited at 2006-01-20 08:36]
| | | |
Levan Namoradze wrote:
whether this is the site only for agencies and freelancers those from specific states, where translation rates are much lower than even here, in Georgia i.e. the former Soviet state.
Well, this site does seem to attract a specific kind of low quality, low paying clientele, and seemingly even has acquired a reputation for it in some circles. The trouble is, nobody seems to be able to do something about that.
P.
| | | | Ford Prefect
Burkina Faso
Local time: 10:30
German to English
+ ...
| Rates and reputations | Jan 20, 2006 |
I would say >90% of the jobs posted in my pair are at rates I would not consider. Ralf is right in saying that better paying work is made available by direct contact but there is no realistic way to measure what proportion of the work that goes through the site this represents.
As translators (at least those of us who want to charge a good rate for good work) we are aware that quoting low rates is bad for our reputation. By analogy, the large volume of 0.02 jobs posted on proz - and... See more I would say >90% of the jobs posted in my pair are at rates I would not consider. Ralf is right in saying that better paying work is made available by direct contact but there is no realistic way to measure what proportion of the work that goes through the site this represents.
As translators (at least those of us who want to charge a good rate for good work) we are aware that quoting low rates is bad for our reputation. By analogy, the large volume of 0.02 jobs posted on proz - and especially the large number of bids these projects get - does nothing to enhance the reputation of proz.com.
It also raises ethical questions about the way the job posters (mainly agencies) are representing their services to the end client. If they accept a job without having someone on their books to do it - who is tried and tested or at least qualified, then puts in a minimal rate offer on proz, they have no idea what kind of quality job they are going to get. ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
| sad, but true | Jan 20, 2006 |
Peter Bouillon wrote:
Well, this site does seem to attract a specific kind of low quality, low paying clientele, and seemingly even has acquired a reputation for it in some circles. The trouble is, nobody seems to be able to do something about that.
P.
What you describe is very unfortunate, but I agree completely with your analysis. I have never seen a job posting offering a good rate and all the people who have contacted me through my profile have disappeared after hearing my rates. I don't want to sound nasty, but many professionals regard ProZ.com as some kind of cattle market. But it is indeed a great meeting point.
Giovanni
| | | | | I have to disagree with you Giovanni | Jan 20, 2006 |
I am Italian like you and I was contacted jobs offering 0.09 eur/word ( target) and I do'nt think this is a low rate, additionally, this is the only site in which I found Jobs, I mean in which clients acepts my offers ( and my prices are not low, they are on the average)
Ralf is right, do not consider those post offerin too low rate
Bye bye
Angio
| | | | Richard Creech
United States
Local time: 06:30
French to English
+ ...
| The rate is fair if one person is willing and able to accept it | Jan 20, 2006 |
As I have said before, it is a fundamental point of economics that a price is appropriate, and even desirable (or "efficient" in economic parlance), when a willing and able seller and a willing and able buyer agree on a price. Just because the price is outside of what you personally deem acceptable is beside the point. No one is forcing you to accept the offer, and it is not intended to personally insult you, but rather is designed to see if anyone will accept work at the rate requested. If s... See more As I have said before, it is a fundamental point of economics that a price is appropriate, and even desirable (or "efficient" in economic parlance), when a willing and able seller and a willing and able buyer agree on a price. Just because the price is outside of what you personally deem acceptable is beside the point. No one is forcing you to accept the offer, and it is not intended to personally insult you, but rather is designed to see if anyone will accept work at the rate requested. If someone will -- and assuming that price is the main concern of the buyer (putting aside issues of quality and other matters) -- than all is good. ▲ Collapse
| | | | E.LA
Spanish to German
+ ...
| globalization effect | Jan 20, 2006 |
I do not agree with Richard.
Proz shows the globalization effect: Here, agencies can find somebody who is
a) living in a cheap country
b) has a husband/wife who earns the really money
and thus they find people who work for 0,02 Euro (or less!!!) and all the others are out of the market.
I stopped to look at the proz jobs, because it makes angry every time. Sometimes I see something which sounds interesting and try it again.
My last... See more I do not agree with Richard.
Proz shows the globalization effect: Here, agencies can find somebody who is
a) living in a cheap country
b) has a husband/wife who earns the really money
and thus they find people who work for 0,02 Euro (or less!!!) and all the others are out of the market.
I stopped to look at the proz jobs, because it makes angry every time. Sometimes I see something which sounds interesting and try it again.
My last letter to a proz-job, I put an absolutely low rate in my email - I only wanted to test if finally I get a positive reaction.
The answer was in the direction that my rate was too high.
I agree with the first statement: it's insulting.
I like Proz for help and information, but as a job market it is out of ethics and only to the advantage of the agencies.
Sometimes I think - Perhaps our reputation is just this:
Go to Proz, there you find the cheapest translators.
I do not know if this is a good reputation.
Perhaps the day will come, Proz reputation will be:
Go to Proz, there you'll find translators who pay for doing translations!
 ) ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
Richard Creech
United States
Local time: 06:30
French to English
+ ...
| Comparative Advantage | Jan 20, 2006 |
E.LA wrote:
I do not agree with Richard.
Proz shows the globalization effect: Here, agencies can find somebody who is
a) living in a cheap country
b) has a husband/wife who earns the really money
You are right that proz.com reflects the globalization effect. Translation is a global market, refelcting the same trend in the economic sectors that have given rise to the translation demands in the first place. It is appropriate that jobs migrate to those countries that can perform them most efficiently. This is a fundamental point of capitalism. In the past generation manufacturing jobs left America and Europe for the new economic powers of Japan, Taiwan and Korea, resulting in better value for consumers in the west. If a good can be made in country X for half the price as in country Y, there is no reason to pay an artificially inflated price in country Y for it, unless the good (or service, as the case may be) differs in some important respect. And this is the rub. Western translators who complain about cut-rate prices from "cheaper" countries need to find a reason to keep their customers. Think about why it is someone should hire you when you are more expensive, and then market yourself accordingly. The answer to this, like most life questions, lies within.
| | | | Abba Storgen (X)
United States
Local time: 05:30
Greek to English
+ ...
"Fair" is a word that is associated with mentalities/cultures. What's fair for a certain mentality/culture, is not fair for another. In the US, WalMart is fair, in Greece it could be considered by many locals as something like a Mafia invasion... anyway... even inside the US, WalMart is perceived differently, depending on one's political/social "inner" culture.
In the so-called "capitalism" (at least the US-based one), the general mentality is:
"I will sell my product at the h... See more "Fair" is a word that is associated with mentalities/cultures. What's fair for a certain mentality/culture, is not fair for another. In the US, WalMart is fair, in Greece it could be considered by many locals as something like a Mafia invasion... anyway... even inside the US, WalMart is perceived differently, depending on one's political/social "inner" culture.
In the so-called "capitalism" (at least the US-based one), the general mentality is:
"I will sell my product at the highest price the market can accept".
In Europe, the general mentality is:
"I will sell as cheaply as possible, because this way I will be "accepted and loved", and if I'm not making any money, I will blame the general and global economic conditions".
Someone has to tell the Europeans (especially the Eastern ones), that the agency will not marry them or "adore" them if they give low prices. Unless they think that their lives and jobs are cheap too. Who will respect his/her own job, if they think it's "cheap"?
If European translators wanted to be competitive and cheaper than the Americans, they would be selling 1 cent per word cheaper than the Americans. What was the reason to sell 10 cents per word cheaper?
======================================================
The other issue, is the quality. Yes, most translations coming from very cheap translators are not of great quality, especially the technical/legal ones. Some even plug the text in "machine translation" software, and then the editor will be laughing with it, but what can he do anyway...
So, let's not "theorize" on globalization, etc. The cost of living in Greece nowadays is the same with Chicago, Illinois (yes, I made the research appropriately as a financial planner, which I used to be for 14 years). However, Greeks will sell much cheaper. Why? I asked them. They were basically "shy" when it came to asking for a reasonable price and they never thought that "translating" is an actual profession (more like a part-time hobby to pay for cigarettes and coffee). If the prevailing price was 10 cents per word, they would NOT offer "9", no. They would immediately offer "5 cents", maybe to drive away the evil spirits or something... that's not competition: That's suicide. That's why they miss most deadlines, that's why they use illegal software copies to do their work, computers full of spam and viruses (who's got the money to buy decent protection?), and as soon as they find an office job in the public sector, they run (leaving the project managers wondering...). Ah, Europe. Good-old beautiful and ineffective Europe... where daddy buys the house, and the spouse (or daddy again) pays the bills... needless to say, from all cheap translators I have had experience in the past 14 years (more than 30), only two (2) delivered a solid product to me, and then they dissapeared when they got married or found a "real job" (by the way, what's the average age of the proz.com members, and how many of them have family obligations?... and how many are writing on their web pages "25 years of experience" when they are not even 40 years old? Hmmm... anyone ever checked that? Is that affecting the reliability of the site? Mr. Henry, please?).
Lefteris
[Edited at 2006-01-21 00:28]
[Edited at 2006-01-21 00:31] ▲ Collapse
| | | |
E.LA wrote:
Go to Proz, there you find the cheapest translators.
I've been told *exactly* those words by a friend of mine (an IT specialist, not a translator, by the way).
It hurts. It's so sad.
I stopped visiting the Jobs section a while ago, when I realized I always ended up feeling upset and insulted. Having said that, I find other sections of the site extremely useful, particularly the fora...
But no matter how hard we all try to hide it, my friend's words are exactly the site's reputation (at least as far as jobs are concerned). That's why I haven't become a platinum yet. And I guess many translators feel exactly the same.
Kindest regards,
Maya
| | | | | Pages in topic: [1 2 3] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Job posted offering less than $0.02 per word!!!! | Wordfast Pro | Translation Memory Software for Any Platform
Exclusive discount for ProZ.com users!
Save over 13% when purchasing Wordfast Pro through ProZ.com. Wordfast is the world's #1 provider of platform-independent Translation Memory software. Consistently ranked the most user-friendly and highest value
Buy now! » |
| | Trados Studio 2022 Freelance | The leading translation software used by over 270,000 translators.
Designed with your feedback in mind, Trados Studio 2022 delivers an unrivalled, powerful desktop
and cloud solution, empowering you to work in the most efficient and cost-effective way.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
Translation news
