Apr 11 11:11
1 mo ago
61 viewers *
German term
Nachschub
German to English
Social Sciences
History
Dear colleagues,
I'm translating a history book on the Holocaust in Ukraine from Russian. The text contains Russian translations of German documents, and when something seems off, like here, I try to go to the original source.
This is a letter written by a German soldier to his sister back home:
Die Juden sind nun glücklich ausgewandert. Die ukrainische Bevölkerung hat sich sehr darüber gefreut, denn die Schießerei in der Nacht hat doch nachgelassen. Viel von dem Judenvolk hat natürlich nicht sein zugewiesenes Barackenlager erreicht u. ist schon unterwegs zugrunde gegangen. Diesem Gesindel verdanken wir den ganzen Krieg u. es ist gut, daß sie nun zusammengesperrt werden u. von sich selbst aus zugrunde gehen. Manche Kugel wird gespart u.**** der Nachschub hat leichtere Arbeit***. In diesem Sinne darf man nie ein Erbar- men haben. Ich wünschte Euch nur Ihr hättet diese Gestalten alle gesehen.
I'm specifically having trouble with the phrase between the ****. Your help is much appreciated!
I'm translating a history book on the Holocaust in Ukraine from Russian. The text contains Russian translations of German documents, and when something seems off, like here, I try to go to the original source.
This is a letter written by a German soldier to his sister back home:
Die Juden sind nun glücklich ausgewandert. Die ukrainische Bevölkerung hat sich sehr darüber gefreut, denn die Schießerei in der Nacht hat doch nachgelassen. Viel von dem Judenvolk hat natürlich nicht sein zugewiesenes Barackenlager erreicht u. ist schon unterwegs zugrunde gegangen. Diesem Gesindel verdanken wir den ganzen Krieg u. es ist gut, daß sie nun zusammengesperrt werden u. von sich selbst aus zugrunde gehen. Manche Kugel wird gespart u.**** der Nachschub hat leichtere Arbeit***. In diesem Sinne darf man nie ein Erbar- men haben. Ich wünschte Euch nur Ihr hättet diese Gestalten alle gesehen.
I'm specifically having trouble with the phrase between the ****. Your help is much appreciated!
Proposed translations
(English)
References
Nachschub | Birgit Gläser |
Proposed translations
-1
56 mins
Selected
Services of Supply
Just my interpretation.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nachschubtruppe_von_Wehrmacht_...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Services_of...
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nachschubtruppe_von_Wehrmacht_...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Services_of...
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Andrew Bramhall
: Doesn't sound natural to me;
3 mins
|
neutral |
philgoddard
: Nachschub has two meanings, the other being reinforcements, and I think this is probably the right one in the context. But I agree with Andrew that your translation doesn't sound natural.
20 mins
|
neutral |
Birgit Gläser
: definitely whatever division delivers supplies/resources, but as mentioned above no idea of the actual English term...
3 hrs
|
disagree |
Susan Starling
: According to the above link SOS was a proper name in use until it was replaced by COM-Z. Also my take is that "Nachschub" refers to people, not supplies (see above discussion comment).
6 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "I went with a very generic-sounding "supply units" since my client confirmed that the text was referring to people, not actual supplies."
58 mins
Reinforcements; back-up.
"We've got this scum to "thank" (meant sarcastically) for starting the war in the first place, and it's good they're now rounded/locked up. A lot of bullets have therefore been saved, and the reinforcements task has been made much easier."
Peer comment(s):
disagree |
Birgit Gläser
: see reference - and yes as reinfocements refers to troop and not supplies
3 hrs
|
So, according to what you say above you have no idea of the correct English term, yet still disagree with my answer?
|
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agree |
Susan Starling
: see reference :)
6 hrs
|
Thanks, the voice of sanity;
|
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disagree |
Sakshi Garg
: Once again as usual, no reference to backbone your answer.
5 days
|
"backbone" as a verb? That's a new one on me.
|
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agree |
Lancashireman
: Not sure which of the two disagrees above is the sillier. Probably the one about 'backboning (sic) your answer'.
6 days
|
Thank you!
|
2 hrs
follow-on (SS/ Wehrmacht) forces
u.**** der Nachschub hat leichtere Arbeit*** : and the follow-up troops (possibly the histroically not-so-innocent Wehrmacht following up the work of the Gestapo and the SS, so standing in to 'finish off the job' and 'clear up') will have an easier time of it.
Nachschub: contrary to comments omitting the first meaning of such, the term has three meanings in fact: reinforcement - replenishment and - in modern-day idiom as used by those of us living on-the-spot - a *refill*, such as asked for at an Apotheke or Trafik (Zeitungsgeschäft) in Austria.
Nachschub: contrary to comments omitting the first meaning of such, the term has three meanings in fact: reinforcement - replenishment and - in modern-day idiom as used by those of us living on-the-spot - a *refill*, such as asked for at an Apotheke or Trafik (Zeitungsgeschäft) in Austria.
Example sentence:
IATE: de Nachschuborganisation Consilium en ordnance supply
Follow-on Forces Group (FFG). The FFG has no pre-determined response time. NATO Readiness Initiative (NRI).
Peer comment(s):
disagree |
Birgit Gläser
: see reference... it is actually the third meaning you listed in the narrative
2 hrs
|
agree |
Susan Starling
: but "follow-up troops" would be better as a more general term
4 hrs
|
10 hrs
logistics, supplies
Just to muddy the waters ...
These days we would say 'logistics', as do the Germans:
Nachschub bezeichnet beim Militär die Beschaffung und die Versorgung mit den Gütern, die die zu versorgende Truppe zur Aufrechterhaltung der Kampfkraft benötigt. Die Nachschubtruppe war lange Zeit eine eigene Truppengattung im Tross des deutschen Heeres, ist jetzt aber im 21. Jahrhundert Teil der Logistiktruppe.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nachschub
Die Nachschubtruppe war eine Truppengattung des Heeres der deutschen Wehrmacht und Waffen-SS, die gemäß Verfügung des Oberkommandos der Wehrmacht vom 14. Oktober 1942 zu den Versorgungstruppen des Heeres zählte und mit Verwaltungs- und Sanitätseinheiten die Rückwärtigen Dienste eines Großverbandes bildete.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nachschubtruppe_von_Wehrmacht_...
„Die Deportation von Juden wurde regelmäßig unterbrochen, um den Nachschub für die Front zu gewährleisten, während nicht eine militärische Aktion jemals aufgeschoben wurde, damit der Transport von Juden in die Gaskammern ohne Unterbrechung weitergehen konnte“
https://www.amazon.de/Endlösung-Schicksal-Juden-1933-1948/dp...
But ... Nachschub was also said of the supply of workers sent to factories, and some of these were Jews, esp. towards the end of the war. I can't help wondering if Barackenlager is a euphemism for 'concentration/death camp' or if it refers to accommodation for industrial workers. Undoubtedly the people in charge of 'resupply' of forced labour had a hard time selecting those fit to work and eliminating those unable to. If the weaker could conveniently die, it made constituting 'resupply' that much simpler. Why take the risk of sending someone to a workplace if they might die before they get there? And there could be repercussions for the person who made the unwise choice.
Die erschöpften und sterbenden Häftlinge sollten durch immer neuen Nachschub ersetzt werden.
https://www.kz-gedenk-mdf.de/hintergründe
Mit dem Einsatz der Häftlinge für die deutsche Rüstungsindustrie stieg der Bedarf an Arbeitskräften. Als Nachschub wurden immer mehr Menschen aus allen Teilen Europas nach Buchenwald verschleppt.
https://www.buchenwald.de/geschichte/chronologie/konzentrati...
Ohne Arbeitsschutz-Vorrichtungen und im ausbeuterischen Schichtsystem mussten die Häftlinge diese auszehrende Tätigkeit ausüben, so dass unter ihnen eine hohe Sterblichkeitsrate herrschte. Dafür wurde umgehend „Nachschub“ aus dem Hauptlager organisiert.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/KZ_Melk
Ab Anfang 1944 sei jedoch der Nachschub an diesen zivilen Zwangsarbeitenden versiegt, und KZ-Häftlinge seien, organisiert vom neu gegründeten „Jägerstab“, zur letzten Reserve der deutschen Industrie geworden
https://translate.google.com/?hl=fr&sl=de&tl=en&text=Ab Anfa...
These days we would say 'logistics', as do the Germans:
Nachschub bezeichnet beim Militär die Beschaffung und die Versorgung mit den Gütern, die die zu versorgende Truppe zur Aufrechterhaltung der Kampfkraft benötigt. Die Nachschubtruppe war lange Zeit eine eigene Truppengattung im Tross des deutschen Heeres, ist jetzt aber im 21. Jahrhundert Teil der Logistiktruppe.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nachschub
Die Nachschubtruppe war eine Truppengattung des Heeres der deutschen Wehrmacht und Waffen-SS, die gemäß Verfügung des Oberkommandos der Wehrmacht vom 14. Oktober 1942 zu den Versorgungstruppen des Heeres zählte und mit Verwaltungs- und Sanitätseinheiten die Rückwärtigen Dienste eines Großverbandes bildete.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nachschubtruppe_von_Wehrmacht_...
„Die Deportation von Juden wurde regelmäßig unterbrochen, um den Nachschub für die Front zu gewährleisten, während nicht eine militärische Aktion jemals aufgeschoben wurde, damit der Transport von Juden in die Gaskammern ohne Unterbrechung weitergehen konnte“
https://www.amazon.de/Endlösung-Schicksal-Juden-1933-1948/dp...
But ... Nachschub was also said of the supply of workers sent to factories, and some of these were Jews, esp. towards the end of the war. I can't help wondering if Barackenlager is a euphemism for 'concentration/death camp' or if it refers to accommodation for industrial workers. Undoubtedly the people in charge of 'resupply' of forced labour had a hard time selecting those fit to work and eliminating those unable to. If the weaker could conveniently die, it made constituting 'resupply' that much simpler. Why take the risk of sending someone to a workplace if they might die before they get there? And there could be repercussions for the person who made the unwise choice.
Die erschöpften und sterbenden Häftlinge sollten durch immer neuen Nachschub ersetzt werden.
https://www.kz-gedenk-mdf.de/hintergründe
Mit dem Einsatz der Häftlinge für die deutsche Rüstungsindustrie stieg der Bedarf an Arbeitskräften. Als Nachschub wurden immer mehr Menschen aus allen Teilen Europas nach Buchenwald verschleppt.
https://www.buchenwald.de/geschichte/chronologie/konzentrati...
Ohne Arbeitsschutz-Vorrichtungen und im ausbeuterischen Schichtsystem mussten die Häftlinge diese auszehrende Tätigkeit ausüben, so dass unter ihnen eine hohe Sterblichkeitsrate herrschte. Dafür wurde umgehend „Nachschub“ aus dem Hauptlager organisiert.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/KZ_Melk
Ab Anfang 1944 sei jedoch der Nachschub an diesen zivilen Zwangsarbeitenden versiegt, und KZ-Häftlinge seien, organisiert vom neu gegründeten „Jägerstab“, zur letzten Reserve der deutschen Industrie geworden
https://translate.google.com/?hl=fr&sl=de&tl=en&text=Ab Anfa...
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
writeaway
: already pointed out by others
47 mins
|
My point is that it could also refer to the supply of Jews as labour for factories (or even as fresh supplies of 'raw material' for death camps).
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neutral |
Susan Starling
: It's not about all the possible various definitions of "Nachschub" but how the word is being used in this particular sentence, where if we're thinking logically it can only refer to people, i.e. troops, and not supplies or logistics, imo.
15 hrs
|
Yes, but my examples show that people (in a world where they are regarded as less than human) can be 'supplies'.
|
2 hrs
theater replacement unit / replacement unit / incoming or new contingent / replacement contingent
German replacement army (Ersatzheer) April 1944.
Ike Skelton Combined Arms Research Library
https://cgsc.contentdm.oclc.org › ...
30 oct. 2008 — This book contains all known replacement units and lists their affiliations with units of the Field Army. Also includes sections on the ...
The U.S. World War II Troop Replacement Policy
https://www.defensemedianetwork.com › ...
21 abr. 2012 — Rather than pulling battle depleted units off the line and replacing them in combat with a fresh, rested unit, Army Chief of Staff George ...
Tongans handover to new contingent in Camp Bastion
https://www.gov.uk › news › ton...
19 dic. 2011 — A traditional challenge called a Sipi Tau was issued to the replacement contingent by the Tongan soldiers who had just completed a six-month ...
New commander and contingent of UN Guard Unit soldiers ...
UNSOM
https://unsom.unmissions.org › ne...
26 jul. 2017 — Mogadishu - The UN Guard Unit (UNGU) in Somalia conducted a change of command ceremony today with an incoming contingent of soldiers.
Chapter 16 REPLACEMENT BATTALION AND COMPANY
https://www.globalsecurity.org › a...
The theater replacement battalion manages the process of moving replacements within the theater of operations. The replacement company is the basic replacement ...
New French Military Contingent Arrives Central African ...
https://humanglemedia.com › ne...
19 mar. 2022 — New French Military Contingent Arrives Central African Republic Capital Bangui. The replacement of the troops comes four months after the MISLOG ...
Personnel Doctrine - Chptr 4 Replacement Management
https://www.globalsecurity.org › a...
DOCTRINAL REQUIREMENTS AND STANDARDS OF SUPPORT. Replacement operations begin with moving individual soldiers from the point of origin to deployed units.
First Czech Military Police Unit of the MSU KFOR was ...
Ministerstvo zahraničních věcí
https://mzv.gov.cz › pristina › firs...
9 ene. 2024 — Zdeněk Koreczki and Ambassador of the Czech Republic in Kosovo Bohumil Mazánek. The departing soldiers were replaced by another thirty personnel ...
What is a replacement unit in the army?
https://www.quora.com › What-is-a-replacement-unit-in...
21 oct. 2019 — Basically it is a centralized point for all new soldiers into a post or a division. there is no chain of command or anything like that. However, .
Transfer of command of 9th rotation of Polish Military ...
https://www.gov.pl › romania › t...
13 ago. 2021 — On August 13, 2021, a ceremonial transfer of duties between the 8th and 9th rotation of the Polish Military Contingent took place in the ...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 14 hrs (2024-04-13 01:30:00 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
troop rotation / rotational deployment
NATO eFP Battlegroups in Poland and Lithuania rotate troops ...
https://shape.nato.int › latest-news
7 feb. 2023 — NATO eFP Battlegroups in Poland and Lithuania rotate troops as part of deterrence and defence mission ... Simultaneously, NATO eFP Battlegroup ...
Rotational Deployments vs. Forward Stationing - USAWC Press
https://press.armywarcollege.edu › ...
JR Deni · 2017 · — The Army's force posture is out of balance, with a greater percentage of troops stationed in the United States than at any time since the ...
Ike Skelton Combined Arms Research Library
https://cgsc.contentdm.oclc.org › ...
30 oct. 2008 — This book contains all known replacement units and lists their affiliations with units of the Field Army. Also includes sections on the ...
The U.S. World War II Troop Replacement Policy
https://www.defensemedianetwork.com › ...
21 abr. 2012 — Rather than pulling battle depleted units off the line and replacing them in combat with a fresh, rested unit, Army Chief of Staff George ...
Tongans handover to new contingent in Camp Bastion
https://www.gov.uk › news › ton...
19 dic. 2011 — A traditional challenge called a Sipi Tau was issued to the replacement contingent by the Tongan soldiers who had just completed a six-month ...
New commander and contingent of UN Guard Unit soldiers ...
UNSOM
https://unsom.unmissions.org › ne...
26 jul. 2017 — Mogadishu - The UN Guard Unit (UNGU) in Somalia conducted a change of command ceremony today with an incoming contingent of soldiers.
Chapter 16 REPLACEMENT BATTALION AND COMPANY
https://www.globalsecurity.org › a...
The theater replacement battalion manages the process of moving replacements within the theater of operations. The replacement company is the basic replacement ...
New French Military Contingent Arrives Central African ...
https://humanglemedia.com › ne...
19 mar. 2022 — New French Military Contingent Arrives Central African Republic Capital Bangui. The replacement of the troops comes four months after the MISLOG ...
Personnel Doctrine - Chptr 4 Replacement Management
https://www.globalsecurity.org › a...
DOCTRINAL REQUIREMENTS AND STANDARDS OF SUPPORT. Replacement operations begin with moving individual soldiers from the point of origin to deployed units.
First Czech Military Police Unit of the MSU KFOR was ...
Ministerstvo zahraničních věcí
https://mzv.gov.cz › pristina › firs...
9 ene. 2024 — Zdeněk Koreczki and Ambassador of the Czech Republic in Kosovo Bohumil Mazánek. The departing soldiers were replaced by another thirty personnel ...
What is a replacement unit in the army?
https://www.quora.com › What-is-a-replacement-unit-in...
21 oct. 2019 — Basically it is a centralized point for all new soldiers into a post or a division. there is no chain of command or anything like that. However, .
Transfer of command of 9th rotation of Polish Military ...
https://www.gov.pl › romania › t...
13 ago. 2021 — On August 13, 2021, a ceremonial transfer of duties between the 8th and 9th rotation of the Polish Military Contingent took place in the ...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 14 hrs (2024-04-13 01:30:00 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
troop rotation / rotational deployment
NATO eFP Battlegroups in Poland and Lithuania rotate troops ...
https://shape.nato.int › latest-news
7 feb. 2023 — NATO eFP Battlegroups in Poland and Lithuania rotate troops as part of deterrence and defence mission ... Simultaneously, NATO eFP Battlegroup ...
Rotational Deployments vs. Forward Stationing - USAWC Press
https://press.armywarcollege.edu › ...
JR Deni · 2017 · — The Army's force posture is out of balance, with a greater percentage of troops stationed in the United States than at any time since the ...
Peer comment(s):
disagree |
Birgit Gläser
: see reference
1 hr
|
neutral |
Susan Starling
: a bit technical for this context but at least this is referring to people and not supplies.
4 hrs
|
agree |
Lancashireman
: Someone went on a rampage.
23 hrs
|
Thanks for your comment.
|
Reference comments
4 hrs
Reference:
Nachschub
Nachschub bezeichnet beim Militär die Beschaffung und die Versorgung mit den Gütern, die die zu versorgende Truppe zur Aufrechterhaltung der Kampfkraft benötigt. Die Nachschubtruppe war lange Zeit eine eigene Truppengattung im Tross des deutschen Heeres, ist jetzt aber im 21. Jahrhundert Teil der Logistiktruppe.
Reference:
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree |
Susan Starling
: Yes, "Nachschub" can certainly mean that, although it can also (informally) refer to the troops and not the supplies, which is what appears to be meant here. But the above definition is obviously correct.
2 hrs
|
agree |
Björn Vrooman
: The Wiki article does refer to people (see second sentence above); still, the letter itself provides few clues as to the actual meaning of the word in this context, so other interpretations are, of course, possible even if unlikely.
5 hrs
|
agree |
writeaway
5 hrs
|
disagree |
Lancashireman
: Instead of Nachschubtruppe, try googling Truppennachschub.
1 day 7 hrs
|
Discussion
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massaker_von_Drobyzkyj_Jar
Please note in particular the wording, "...to save bullets..." in the English text.
Extremely troubling...
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_Weiss-Bollandt
But only because he has a B in his name and it makes sense with the dates that you can see for Ukraine.
Also, I found this about the Polizeibattailon mentioned in my link:
https://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gliederungen/Polizei-Ba...
Supply batallion could make sense...
https://www.fritz-bauer-institut.de/fileadmin/editorial/publ...
On page 14, it says, "Nachdem die Wehrmacht beispielsweise am
25. Oktober 1941 Charkiw eingenommen hatte, herrschte dort schon
wenige Tage später Hunger, weil die Deutschen die wenigen Lebensmittelvorräte in der Stadt für sich beanspruchten. Das Oberkommando der 6. Armee drängte alsbald darauf, die Juden der Stadt durch den
SD »behandeln« zu lassen. Nachdem dieser Mitte Dezember eingetroffen war, sperrte die Wehrmacht die 12.000 jüdischen Einwohner
bei klirrender Kälte in ungeheizten Baracken außerhalb der Stadt
ein, bevor sie von Angehörigen des Sk 4a und des Polizeibataillons
314 erschossen und in Gaswagen erstickt wurden."
It "seems" as if all major parties involved in such actions were already there, so no need for any (timely) troop movement. Also, in Björn's link, you can read that the person concerned had the rank of a "Wachtmeister", not a soldier. Wachtmeister is part of the police, not the military.
https://www.muenchner-volkstheater.de/sites/default/files/do...
See pp. 37-38 (that is, pp. 16-17 of the PDF). There, it says that they intended to execute the Jewish population after [penning them up for] several weeks or a few months [in a restricted area, I guess], but the guy in Charkow had them all put into camps without something to eat, so they died of hunger or from the cold even before the "Spezialkommandos" arrived.
This could make the interpretation more likely that Nachschub refers to soldiers who aren't part of a logistics unit. However, it could also mean that because no supplies had to be spent on keeping the prisoners alive until execution, there was more food etc. left for everyone else. Please keep in mind that the supply lines into eastern Europe and beyond were stretched thin, even that early into the invasion.
Still, maybe this helps.
If their plan was to put them into concentration camps, more or less, and they were already on their way, how does that make the job of those "follow-up troops" easier? That makes no sense to me.
What does make sense is that, as harsh as it may sound, you don't need supplies for dead people or those who'd guard them so one less (logistical) thing to worry about.
Now I should do something else and wish you all a great evening; I know someone has to translate this disgusting stuff and I don't envy the asker here, so I'm happy someone else is doing it and wish them the best of luck
In her comment on Arne's answer, Birgit said "definitely whatever division delivers supplies/resources"; this is how Johanna understood it as well (as did I).
Maybe the remark she posted when it came to Adrian's answer wasn't that clear, but she was not talking about "the supplies themselves such as bullets." I don't know where you got that from?
And if you're talking about the same thing Adrian does ("possibly the histroically [sic] not-so-innocent Wehrmacht following up the work of the Gestapo..."), then I disagree and I have no idea how you arrive at that conclusion based on the snippet we were given. Nachschubtruppe typically refers to some logistics or supply unit, not to those fighting on the front lines.
The entire letter is available at the following link (not the asker's text, so fine to post):
https://briefsammlung.de/feldpost-zweiter-weltkrieg/brief.ht...
Reading it won't help much, though, because this paragraph is basically the only one referring to Nachschub.
As for "Services of Supply", that's also a highly specific term referring to a division of the US army that only existed between 1942-44 according to Arne's link. That's why it doesn't sound natural, because it's an (obsolete) proper name and not the general term ("supply services," as Andrew notes). But I don't believe that's what they mean here anyway.
Heck, just googled it... Nachschub is a division of the army... will post a reference and for the life of me, no idea how those guys used to be called in English... logistics is too modern a word...
This is the Russian translation:
Экономятся пули и у пополнения будет легкая работа
Bullets are saved and replenishment will be an easy task.
I didn't understand how not using bullets to kill Jews would make restocking or replenishing them any easier. Hence my question.
Not sure what you mean by "doesn't sound natural." I mean, I have highlighted a German and an American text... And again, this has nothing to do with Nachschub (replenishment of bullets, whatever it may be) in my opinion. It has to do with the people behind this service. Because it says "hat leichtere Arbeit." It does not say the replenishment is easy/easier. It says has (hat). That is a striking difference. I think we should wait for a "natural" German to confirm this.
We think differently. You think like Justin, that it is essentially just a replenishment. I think "hat leichtere Arbeit" refers to an organization/people. Do you understand? Nachschub is meant to be this Nachschubtruppe, or SOS in American English.