David Hayes Nov 29, 2019:

Or "un homme à Paris" (cf. "un homme dans Paris"). Of course the expression "tenue à la coupe" is standard. But I've found that people sometimes stretch standard usage to mean other things. Not saying that this is necessarily the case here, mind you.

Tony M Nov 29, 2019:

@ David Oh, and we only use 'à' in the expressions you mention because there is an active verb involving movement, where 'à' can have the sense of 'to' or 'into'.
This is not at all the same situation as here, where 'tenue' is a noun, and there is no specific sense of 'movement' involved.

Tony M Nov 29, 2019:

@ David ...except that this IS a well-known, standard term in pâtisserie.

David Hayes Nov 29, 2019:

I know the use of "tenue à la coupe" to talk about knives, etc. I wonder if we know exactly what the 'entremets glacés' are in this case. I see plenty online that would indeed need to be cut, but in other places the results show desserts for which this is unlikely to be the case. We do sometimes use 'à' to mean 'dans': e.g. jeter à la poubelle; mettre à la cave. It's worth considering this from all angles.

Tony M Nov 29, 2019:

@ David I'm sure it wouldn't be that, because it simply doesn't fit well with the other list items.
In addition, it's pretty specific, suggesting the entremets might be served in a sundae dish.
Furthermore, I don't think in FR we'd say 'tenue à la coupe' in that sense — surely 'dans' would be the more applicable preposition?
It is also, as I've said before, a standard expression referring to cutting quality...

David Hayes Nov 28, 2019:

Can't help feeling this is nothing to do with cutting in this instance. We are dealing with ices such as ice-cream, sorbets, etc. If you look here (http://docplayer.fr/53487924-Groupe-ii-classe-5-glaces-sorbe... it seems to me that what is being assessed is how well the ice cream (or whatever) holds together in the bowl in which it is served (i.e. how well it retains its shape rather than quickly dissolving into a liquid mess, which often happens with low-quality desserts of this nature). PS I can't seem to post the link so that it works, but the reference is this one: http://docplayer.fr/53487924-Groupe-ii-classe-5-glaces-sorbe...

Tony M Nov 27, 2019:

@ Wolf Not really, because those are all other characteristics that go alongside this 'tenue à la coupe'...

Wolf Draeger Nov 27, 2019:

What about Consistency, firmness or texture?

Tony M Nov 27, 2019:

@ Wolf I'm honestly not really sure: I rather feel that cutting cleanly is only one aspect of this 'tenue'; for example, it might cut cleanly, but then as soon as you removed the knife, it might collapse. I think the best idea is 'holding together', but of course that is a very informal expression that could not really be used here!
I feel sure there probably is an official equivalent technical word in EN — but sadly, all my training has been here in France!

Wolf Draeger Nov 27, 2019:

Making (and missing) the cut I did a France-specific search on DuckDuckGo and the limited results I found all bear Tony's reading out. I think my suggestion of coupe=cup/bowl can be safely discarded.

@Tony, out of interest, would you go with a wording around "clean cut" or "cuts cleanly"?

Tony M Nov 27, 2019:

@ Phil That's very curious, why your search results should be so wildly off?!
I searched on "tenue à la coupe" + pâtisserie, and Google returned a respectable 48,100 results, many of which make the meaning of this term abundantly clear!
Perhaps the fact that you are searching in the US rather than from France bars you from seeing certain results?

philgoddard Nov 27, 2019:

I'm not convinced it's a widely used culinary term. It gets 41 hits, and most relate to knives and metals.
Wikipedia defines entremet as "a multi-layered mousse-based cake with various complementary flavors and textural contrasts".

Tony M Nov 27, 2019:

@ Wolf What they are served in is irrelevant: 'tenue à la coupe' is a standard culinary term, which I am familiar with as a professional chef, and in my collaborations with local pâtisserie trainers.

Wolf Draeger Nov 27, 2019:

...'twixt cup and lip @Tony, I don't know enough to be sure either way about tenue—you could well be right—but I don't see why a frozen dessert can't be served in a cup or bowl. For iced entremets my Larousse Gastronomique lists fruit ice creams, sorbets, iced cups, frosted fruits, ice cream, cakes, bombes, mousses, parfaits, soufflés and vacherins, most of which are quite at home in such a dish.

Tony M Nov 27, 2019:

@ Wolf 'Tenue à...' usually means 'resistance to...' — and an entremet isn't usually served in a 'coupe'!

Tony M Nov 27, 2019:

@ Asker I think that's undertranslating: any self-respecting dessert will hold its shape, but what counts is how well it cuts!

Sarah Russell (asker) Nov 27, 2019:

Thanks to both of you for your suggestions. As the criterion is so short, with no further explanation, I've gone for 'ability to hold its shape', which hopefully covers both 'when cut' and 'in the serving dish' :-)

Wolf Draeger Nov 27, 2019:

Coupe or coupe? Agree with Tony it means if the dessert stays put. But does à la coupe mean "when cut" or "in the serving dish" (being frozen)? Or would that be en coupe?

Tony M Nov 27, 2019:

@ Asker Yes! How well it holds together when cut into