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Glossary entry

German term or phrase:

tugendhaft keusch.

English translation:

pure and chaste

Added to glossary by Fiorsam
Nov 12, 2011 21:06
12 yrs ago
German term

tugendhaft keusch.

German to English Art/Literary Music Mahler documentary
I'm translating the subtitles of a documentary on Mahler from English to Italian. The text has already been translated from German into English, and I'm translating from the English version, which, however, does not always make much sense. Therefore I need to refer to the German version as well. But since my knowledge of German is very limited, I'm asking for your help. Here is the context in which the expression occurs:

"Mahler verweist auf das heiße Liebesstreben.
Es ist ein erotisches Bild und doch ist es ein spirituelles Gedicht.
Der Eros weckt in uns liebevolle Zuwendung.
Ich denke, wir können das nachempfinden.
Wenn wir uns nicht leidenschaftlich zuwenden, wenn unser innerstes Verlangen nicht beteiligt ist,
dann schwebt Spiritualität erhaben herum, und ist nur tugendhaft keusch.
Proposed translations (English)
2 +1 pure and chaste
4 +1 virtuously chaste
3 +1 (all) virtue and chastity

Discussion

Ramey Rieger (X) Nov 13, 2011:
Hey there Gangels! I believe that the author is fully serious about what he's expounding - at least it reads like that to me. So I would be really cautious in using phrases that could be taken ironically.
gangels (X) Nov 13, 2011:
To reconcile it with the full sentence, I'd say ...it merely espouses virtuousness and chastity in the abstract.

(I.e., I believe in it but don't really live it, in plain language).
Ramey Rieger (X) Nov 13, 2011:
Hello Fiorsam! Have you considered rephrasing the sentence? ...."when we are not distracted by our deepest desires, the nobility of purely virginal spirituality wafts about us." Das Wort zum Sonntag!! (joking)
Fiorsam (asker) Nov 13, 2011:
Yes Joshua, the suggestion are all appropriate. Just a matter of deciding which fits better within the context. Thanks to all!
Joshua Pepper Nov 13, 2011:
That's fine - I personally don't claim to know anything about Mahler, and everything that I suggested was extrapolated from the context. Hopefully the ideas that I (and others) provided will be enough to help you out though!
Fiorsam (asker) Nov 13, 2011:
I agree with the various translations, but not with the interpretation. Knowing Mahler, I think that what he is saying is that without passion (Eros), spirituality remains only a weightless (floating) "virtuous chastity" (chaste virtue, or any other combination of words you may have suggested. I don't think that Mahler conceived spirituality withour Eros. My interpretation, however, does not impact your suggestions.
Joshua Pepper Nov 12, 2011:
I don't think that there is any negative connotation from the context. I think the "nur" is simply saying that this desire is only chaste, as opposed to other types of desire which would be ambiguous - a simultaneous mixture of down-to-earth lust and "higher" sentiments.

Proposed translations

+1
49 mins
Selected

pure and chaste

Right, I'm going to try to see what I can make of this:
First of all, let's get the vocabulary sorted out.
Tugendhaft means virtuous, and keusch means chaste (these words are actually quite a bit more loaded than that, and there is some overlap between the two, but I think that these two words render them quite well).

I think that the gist of the argument is that the artistic/spiritual elements transcend the mundane eroticism. When it is art, it is not "dirty", so to speak.

So I would render this as "pure and chaste".
In the sentence, something like: With considerable artistic licence!
When we do not turn to each other in passion, when our innermost lust is not aroused, spirituality rises up beyond [us/this/...], and remains pure and chaste.


But there may be other, better solutions, and I may have misunderstood things/missed nuances, as the German is quite difficult.
Peer comment(s):
agree Helen Shiner : or virtuous and chaste or even moral and chaste, perhaps. Mahler gives a focus to spirituality via the body or the physical experience of being human. Without that spirituality wafts around unfixed and does not act to heighten human emotions/experiences.
19 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "All suggestions were applicable, so I selected one that would best fit the Italian text. The suggestions were very "illuminating". Thank you to all!"
+1
42 mins

virtuously chaste

I think the straight translation will work here - even though from the context there seems to be some negative connotation (*only* virtuously chaste).
Peer comment(s):
agree Barbara Wiebking
1 hr
neutral Helen Shiner : That would be tugendhaftlich keusch.//My point is that no-one would say or write 'virtuously chaste'; so glad you have understood what I meant.
19 hrs
hmm - no: this is not something anyone would say. "tugendhaft keusch" to me could mean something like the "pure and chaste" in the suggestion below or "chaste in a virtuous way", hence my suggestion, which of course is not necessarily the best one.
Something went wrong...
+1
2 hrs

(all) virtue and chastity

If it actually refers to the "spirituality" of the phrase before, one might adjust the word class. No disagreement with the other suggestions.
Peer comment(s):
agree British Diana
8 hrs
Danke bestens!
neutral Helen Shiner : This sounds like the wrong register to me.
23 hrs
Thank you.
Something went wrong...
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