| Pages sur ce sujet: < [1 2 3] | Poll: Who is the boss? Auteur du fil: ProZ.com Staff
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Mario Chavez (X) 
Local time: 02:10
anglais vers espagnol
+ ...
| Groveling rates? | Nov 9, 2016 |
José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote: Sheila Wilson wrote:
Any freelancer who thinks the client is their boss is really an employee with absolutely no job security, no paid sick leave and no paid holidays.
Just spend a few moments thinking of any business whose services you buy: IT techies; estate agents; builders; accountants ... Do you think you, their client, are also their boss?
I'm really starting to despair now. People everywhere seem to stop thinking before they start voting. As the "client is boss" option won by an overwhelming majority, this explains why groveling rates are so frequently offered, and why so many translators spend most of their working years moaning about low rates. I - as a translator - have been educating clients on the different job options for years. It's a one-sided approach. I guess no client ever bothered to educate translators - especially the cheap ones - that they should be in full command of the work they do.
After reading Erzsébet's posting, I have to say this: less manichean thinking, more tolerance. Even I, as someone who lives in the country of the almighty dollar, know not to belittle those who have to work for 10-20% of my going rates. I wouldn't say their rates are of the groveling kind because, honestly, I don't know their circumstances, obligations and aspirations.
| | | | Erzsébet Czopyk
Hongrie
Local time: 08:10
Membre (2006)
russe vers hongrois
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | I checked my October offers | Nov 9, 2016 |
and I would like to put here a rough translation how one of my most honest clients wrote (family enterprise):
"Dear Liz'beth, I would ready to pay you the same price as in the past and I really appreciate that you did not raise since 2014 but we can't.
You offered me 2 HUFs pers chars we still can guarantee you the work under the same conditions and we will pay your invoices with the same punctuality as we prove in the past but for this project we can gice you HUF 50000 (=EUR ... See more and I would like to put here a rough translation how one of my most honest clients wrote (family enterprise):
"Dear Liz'beth, I would ready to pay you the same price as in the past and I really appreciate that you did not raise since 2014 but we can't.
You offered me 2 HUFs pers chars we still can guarantee you the work under the same conditions and we will pay your invoices with the same punctuality as we prove in the past but for this project we can gice you HUF 50000 (=EUR 163) plus VAT because we do not have more money.
We understand if you say not but to be honest we still hope that the business will better.
Also we offer for you as a compensation 20kg of washing detergent from our production as we remember you have a big family and we have some boxes which are damaged a bit so these boxes goes to our colleagues and we ourselves use them at home."
I said yes and on the next day the client came with the washing powder and the money.
If you do not have much money, you still do have honest and trustworthy partners in bad times.
[Edited at 2016-11-09 23:21 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | inkweaver
Allemagne
Local time: 08:10
français vers allemand
+ ...
| Thank you for the compliment | Nov 10, 2016 |
Sheila Wilson wrote:
I'm really starting to despair now. People everywhere seem to stop thinking before they start voting.
Thank you for the compliment, Sheila. Perhaps you shouldn't be so quick to judge other people (I'm not referring to the US elections here). Your own reality is probably a lot more comfortable than other's and yes, it may feel like this for some: Any freelancer who thinks the client is their boss is really an employee with absolutely no job security, no paid sick leave and no paid holidays.
When I started I was so sure that I was my own boss but I did change my mind after for years. Being really 'free' as a freelancer is just an illusion. Of course you're always free to say 'no', but then what? But perhaps it feels differently if you haven't got any rent to pay, a partner's income to fall back on, no child or children to support...
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Espagne
Local time: 07:10
Membre (2007)
anglais
+ ...
| Dignity is for the rich, for the poor, even for slaves | Nov 10, 2016 |
svenfrade wrote: Sheila Wilson wrote:
I'm really starting to despair now. People everywhere seem to stop thinking before they start voting. Thank you for the compliment, Sheila. Perhaps you shouldn't be so quick to judge other people (I'm not referring to the US elections here). Your own reality is probably a lot more comfortable than other's and yes, it may feel like this for some: Any freelancer who thinks the client is their boss is really an employee with absolutely no job security, no paid sick leave and no paid holidays. When I started I was so sure that I was my own boss but I did change my mind after for years. Being really 'free' as a freelancer is just an illusion. Of course you're always free to say 'no', but then what? But perhaps it feels differently if you haven't got any rent to pay, a partner's income to fall back on, no child or children to support...
I've known poverty myself, Svenfrade, both throughout my childhood (parents on social benefits, 5 of us in a tiny rented 2-bed flat, me the 'poor council scholarship girl' at an expensive private school), and later when my husband - the main breadwinner - had to stop work on health grounds at the age of 47, when we were already living abroad with a kid and no safety net. I feel deeply for you, for Erzsébet and the many others still in similar situations. It's also heart-warming to read about Erzsébet's honest client, with whom she clearly has a very dignified and mutually respectful relationship, even if it's a far from profitable one. I hope her client's longed-for upturn does indeed happen soon.
I can't abide profiteering, hence I can't abide seeing freelance translators being abused by clients, especially as the abusers are normally agencies who know exactly the market price of their work and who act in full awareness of the abuse. But really, why wouldn't they do it? They're only human and it seems that so many freelancers encourage them. Every time a freelancer thinks he/she is inferior to a client, that client is going to push them further down. Low rates are just one symptom of that abuse. I'm not saying that the freelancer could necessarily get better rates elsewhere, and obviously turning down every job isn't an option when you need to put food on the table. So accepting low rates, as in Erzsébet's case, may be unavoidable. But when you also lose your dignity, you lose everything, AFAIC.
I apologise to everyone who was offended by my earlier post. The result of the American election, hot on the heels of Brexit, is really difficult to take in. Although I do still sympathise with struggling freelance translators, I suspect that there may be far bigger problems looming than our sometimes rather lop-sided relationships with our clients. Erzsébet set out some of the things that are disturbing me more in her first post.
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