Nov 20, 2002 04:16
21 yrs ago
Italiano term
non con ritrornare nella sua guardia doppo essere uscito prestamente di misura
Da Italiano a Inglese
Altro
historical Italian swordplay
Il nemico che nel feride non si salva, e perso, e non si puo salvare se non con ritrornare nella sua guardia doppo essere uscito prestamente di misura.
From a seventeenth century Italian martial arts text.
I would greatly appreciate any help you can give me. So far, I believe it reads in the beginning, 'the enemy who in wounding does not save himself is lost...'
Am I on the right track? Can you help me with the rest of it? Thank you very much.
From a seventeenth century Italian martial arts text.
I would greatly appreciate any help you can give me. So far, I believe it reads in the beginning, 'the enemy who in wounding does not save himself is lost...'
Am I on the right track? Can you help me with the rest of it? Thank you very much.
Proposed translations
4 ore
Yakov Tomara
Over 14 years in international trade
Native in: Russo
Works in: Da Inglese a Russo, Da Francese a Russo, Da Italiano a Russo, and 3 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
570
Selected
... to return to one's fighting stance after having quickly moved outside the fighting distance
I undertand this sentence in a slightly different way:
"The enemy/fighter who cannot defend himself when falling/wounded is lost and the only possibility of defence is to return to one's fighting stance after having quickly moved outside the fighting distance."
I think that:
1) "nemico" means here "a fighter, one of two fighting enemies" and not just "an enemy" however you should check up the context to prove or disprove it;
2) "feride" (modern form "ferite") here means "falling" rather than "wounds", see below (but "wounds" is also possible, check up the context);
3) "salvarsi" here means "defend oneself", see below;
4) "ritrornare" means "ritornare" (either a typo or an obsolete spelling);
5) "guardia" here means "fighting stance", see below;
6) "misura" here means "fighting distance", see below.
Definitions:
Misura
9 (sport) nel pugilato e nella scherma, distanza di combattimento: chiudere la misura, avvicinarsi troppo all'avversario.
Ferita
1 lacerazione della cute o dei tessuti prodotta da un'arma o da un corpo contundente o da un urto, una caduta (SIC!!)
Salvarsi
3 difendersi, preservarsi; andare esente
Guardia
6 soprattutto nella scherma e nel pugilato, posizione di difesa: guardia alta, bassa; avere una guardia stretta, chiusa ' guardia destra, pugile mancino | mettersi, stare in guardia, assumere una posizione di difesa di fronte all'avversario;
(All the above definitions from the referenced dictionary, see the link below)
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Note added at 2002-11-20 11:37:52 (GMT)
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Thanks once again to Adriana. I didn\'t take \"nel\" into account and erroneously suggested that \"feride\" stood for \"ferite\" while \"ferire\" was obviously meant! Before posting I wondered a bit why did the author mention such obvious thing that should you were wounded and/or fell you must creep out of the enemy\'s reach and prepare for defence. With Adriana\'s comment taken into account it\'s completely logical: a reminder of the necessity to think of defence after an attack. So, the final translation will be:
\"If the attacking fighter cannot defend himself, he is lost, and the only possibility of defence is to return to one\'s fighting stance after having quickly moved outside the fighting distance.\"
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Note added at 2002-11-20 11:40:02 (GMT)
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Another correction: \"withdraw from\" rather than \"moved outside.\"
"The enemy/fighter who cannot defend himself when falling/wounded is lost and the only possibility of defence is to return to one's fighting stance after having quickly moved outside the fighting distance."
I think that:
1) "nemico" means here "a fighter, one of two fighting enemies" and not just "an enemy" however you should check up the context to prove or disprove it;
2) "feride" (modern form "ferite") here means "falling" rather than "wounds", see below (but "wounds" is also possible, check up the context);
3) "salvarsi" here means "defend oneself", see below;
4) "ritrornare" means "ritornare" (either a typo or an obsolete spelling);
5) "guardia" here means "fighting stance", see below;
6) "misura" here means "fighting distance", see below.
Definitions:
Misura
9 (sport) nel pugilato e nella scherma, distanza di combattimento: chiudere la misura, avvicinarsi troppo all'avversario.
Ferita
1 lacerazione della cute o dei tessuti prodotta da un'arma o da un corpo contundente o da un urto, una caduta (SIC!!)
Salvarsi
3 difendersi, preservarsi; andare esente
Guardia
6 soprattutto nella scherma e nel pugilato, posizione di difesa: guardia alta, bassa; avere una guardia stretta, chiusa ' guardia destra, pugile mancino | mettersi, stare in guardia, assumere una posizione di difesa di fronte all'avversario;
(All the above definitions from the referenced dictionary, see the link below)
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-11-20 11:37:52 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Thanks once again to Adriana. I didn\'t take \"nel\" into account and erroneously suggested that \"feride\" stood for \"ferite\" while \"ferire\" was obviously meant! Before posting I wondered a bit why did the author mention such obvious thing that should you were wounded and/or fell you must creep out of the enemy\'s reach and prepare for defence. With Adriana\'s comment taken into account it\'s completely logical: a reminder of the necessity to think of defence after an attack. So, the final translation will be:
\"If the attacking fighter cannot defend himself, he is lost, and the only possibility of defence is to return to one\'s fighting stance after having quickly moved outside the fighting distance.\"
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Note added at 2002-11-20 11:40:02 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Another correction: \"withdraw from\" rather than \"moved outside.\"
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Adriana Esposito
: I think "nel ferire" has an active meaning (to wound, not to be wounded). As to the rest I agree.
54 min
|
|
Thank you very much! I think you're right.
|
2 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you both."
+2
3 ore
Adriana Esposito
Italia
Italia
Native in Italiano
Italia
into-IT
Native in: Italiano 
Works in: Da Inglese a Italiano, Da Francese a Italiano, Italiano
Related KudoZ points
:
224
..and can only save himself if
he quickly recovers his defensive position (fencing distance).
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Note added at 2002-11-20 09:22:18 (GMT)
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Following my \"neutral\" to Yakov (sorry, Yakov) I would like to add, that the sentence wouldn\'t make much sense if \"feride\" was to be intended as a passive. The meaning here, as far as I see it, is this: the fighter who wants to attack his enemy has to expose himself (i.e. abandone the fencing distance) but, after his attack, has to recover his position as soon as possible not to be wounded himself.
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Note added at 2002-11-20 09:22:18 (GMT)
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Following my \"neutral\" to Yakov (sorry, Yakov) I would like to add, that the sentence wouldn\'t make much sense if \"feride\" was to be intended as a passive. The meaning here, as far as I see it, is this: the fighter who wants to attack his enemy has to expose himself (i.e. abandone the fencing distance) but, after his attack, has to recover his position as soon as possible not to be wounded himself.
5 giorni
Adriana Esposito
Italia
Italia
Native in Italiano
Italia
into-IT
Native in: Italiano
Works in: Da Inglese a Italiano, Da Francese a Italiano, Italiano
Related KudoZ points
:
224
Is it clearer like this?
Il nemico che nel feride non si salva, e perso, e non si puo salvare se non con ritrornare nella sua guardia doppo essere uscito prestamente di misura.
The ennemy who in wounding does not save himself is lost and cannot (non si può) safe (salvare) [his life] unless (se non) he recovers his fencing distance (guardia) right (prestamente) after abandoning it.
- se non con: unless or if+not. Ex.: Non c'è modo di dimagrire se non con il digiunare=There is no way to loose weight unless you do not eat.
si: personal pronoun. In Italian you have the verb "salvare"=To save and "salvarsi"=to save oneself.
Se=if
The ennemy who in wounding does not save himself is lost and cannot (non si può) safe (salvare) [his life] unless (se non) he recovers his fencing distance (guardia) right (prestamente) after abandoning it.
- se non con: unless or if+not. Ex.: Non c'è modo di dimagrire se non con il digiunare=There is no way to loose weight unless you do not eat.
si: personal pronoun. In Italian you have the verb "salvare"=To save and "salvarsi"=to save oneself.
Se=if
Discussion
Thanks again!