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Glossary entry

Spanish term or phrase:

La razón no grita, la razón convence.

English translation:

Truth speaks for itself.

Added to glossary by bcsantos
Jul 11, 2009 17:01
14 yrs ago
1 viewer *
Spanish term

La razón no grita, la razón convence.

Spanish to English Social Sciences Government / Politics Philosophy
I am looking for an English equivalent of this sentiment, not just a simple translation; something that can be as eloquent, concise and evocative as the original. The word that gives me pause here is “razón”; it has very different connotations in Spanish as its literal does in English. Not “reason” but rather “being right”. Also "yell" and "scream", etc. are cause for concern. There seem to be no parallel sentiments in this language pair, it boggles the mind!
Proposed translations (English)
3 Truth speaks for itself.
4 +6 Reason does not need to yell, it convinces
4 +5 "The voice of reason speaks softly"
3 +3 reasoning by persuasion, not shouting
4 +1 The power of reason does not bully/shout it convinces
4 +1 A single word, to the wise, is sufficient.
5 "If what you are saying is true, there is no need for yelling, the plain truth is enough to convince
3 +1 reasoning does not cause an uproar, it simply convinces...
4 Arguments are won not by shouting, but by reasoning calmly
3 Truth is quiet.
3 Reason/Rightness needs no noise, reason convinces.
3 Reason is silent, calm, convincing. Reason is silent, calm, persuasive.
3 The voice of truth does not yell, the voice of truth convinces
1 Right-wing political commentators are not reasonable
Change log

Jul 14, 2009 09:18: bcsantos Created KOG entry

Discussion

Adriana Martinez Jul 15, 2009:
Please... ... look for my message -private- at your profile.
Steven Huddleston (asker) Jul 15, 2009:
Sharing the wealth. (Part 3 of 3) Maybe there is no better way to transmit some thoughts from one language to another; certainly this is not the first time any of us has encountered such a quandary, nor, as translators, will it be the last. However, even if I do "fail” in the not so nefarious ambition of improving upon a “standard” at least I have gained very valuable insight into the “sense of meaning” and the “trappings” of false cognates. And I have all of you to thank for it.

I write this, in the sincerest hope that my own love and wonder of language and words and their subtle intertwinglings, meshed within the matrix of this experience, gives something to all of you, in return for what you have given me.
Steven Huddleston (asker) Jul 15, 2009:
Sharing the wealth. (Part 2 of 3) “Truth” on the other hand, may not be much better as an alternative, but then “righteousness” is too clumsy, and "rightness" sounds almost vulgar. (No, Cinnamon Nolan, I am not taking a backhanded slap at you, you were thinking outside the box, and I applaud your effort! I hovered over your proposal for a very long time...)

I, however, did not think of “truth”, it never crossed my mind. And it *should* have!

That more than anything else in this exercise should be a testament to the sometimes awesome power of the false cognate!

Truth does not yell; it convinces. (With humble acknowledgement to bcsantos)

I am still not convinced (no pun) that this is the best way to transmit such a powerful idea to the English audience, but I do believe it is better.
Steven Huddleston (asker) Jul 15, 2009:
Sharing the wealth. (Part 1 of 3) As an exercise, I offer my thoughts to you and hope the discussion will continue beyond the granting of kudoz points. As professionals I think it is a worthy pursuit.

I believe the original, standard, and largely accepted translation for this sentiment is fundamentally flawed. The term “la razón” as is used in this expression by Don Luis A. Ferre, is more in keeping with “quién tiene la razón” than with “el raciocinio” or “razonamiento”. Therefore the English translation: "Reason does not need to yell, it convinces." fails to be faithful to the original meaning. In English, you can be reasonable and still be wrong, which is definitely not what Don Luis meant.

And yet, it is hard to step back from the trap of this very seductive but false cognate: That "la razón" and “reason” are interchangeable. Here more than ever the context is everything. If Don Luis had said “el razonamiento” or “el raciocinio” I would agree with the translation. But that is not what he said.
Eileen Brophy Jul 14, 2009:
That is what we are here for :) You will be able to help us another time Steven. I wish I had remembered that answer that BCSantos gave!! It is soooo logical when you see it right before your eyes.
Steven Huddleston (asker) Jul 13, 2009:
You are all wonderful! I have been grappling with this one for a very long time, with no progress at all. This exercise has given me many new options and ideas; in short my purpose has advanced more with your help in a few days, than it did on my own for many months. Each one of you has helped me in some way. I wish I could give you all four points each! Thank you all!

Proposed translations

1 hr
Selected

Truth speaks for itself.

...

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Note added at 4 hrs (2009-07-11 21:08:26 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Truth/ truthfulness of a statement / stands on its own merit.
Peer comment(s):
neutral liz askew : Well, IMHO this is a mis-interpretation.
2 days 13 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "I think "Truth" is the closest idea in English to the one represented by "Razón" in this form. It did not occur to me. Thank you, so much!"
+1
4 mins

reasoning does not cause an uproar, it simply convinces...

Una opción...
Note from asker:
Thank you for your help!
Peer comment(s):
agree Michael Powers (PhD) : es una opción buena también, Xenia - Mike :)
2 hrs
Gracias, Miguel....xen :-))
Something went wrong...
+1
7 mins

The power of reason does not bully/shout it convinces

My suggestion :-)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 mins (2009-07-11 17:10:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Or The power of reason does not bully/shout it persuades
Note from asker:
Thank you for your help!
Peer comment(s):
agree Michael Powers (PhD) : This is a nice way of saying it also - Mike :)
2 hrs
Something went wrong...
+1
36 mins

A single word, to the wise, is sufficient.

I think that we're looking for an established English saying or proverb here. This is the one that occurs to me for the Spanish proverb in the Query. Others may come to mind for addition later.

Best of luck.
Note from asker:
Lack of "impact" notwithstanding, an altogether noble sentiment. Thank you for your help!
Peer comment(s):
agree Michael Powers (PhD) : I think this does a good job of conveying the meaning. Well done, Richard - Mike :)
8 mins
Yes, this is how I understand this well-used motto. Thanks, Mike.
neutral David Ronder : I have my doubts about this, because it focuses on being laconic rather than on speaking quietly, and on wisdom rather than reason.
23 mins
I disagree with your take on the English proverb's meaning; the point is wise people recognize the truth in few words & it's fools at whom one must nag or raise the voice. But thanks; your 'taciturn' take on it's new to me & may be useful. My regards!
Something went wrong...
+5
56 mins

"The voice of reason speaks softly"

I have found this attributed to Sigmund Freud, but can't verify it. I think it expresses the idea.
Note from asker:
Thank you for your help!
Peer comment(s):
agree T o b i a s : Perfect.
1 hr
Thanks very much, Tobias - it's not often a peer says that!
agree Michael Powers (PhD) : This is nicely worded, too - Mike :)
1 hr
Thanks, Michael
agree Maria Mastruzzo
7 hrs
Gracias, Maria
agree Catherine Gilsenan
1 day 17 hrs
Thank you, Catherine
agree Caroline Clarke
2 days 39 mins
Thanks, Caroline
Something went wrong...
2 hrs

Truth is quiet.

Note from asker:
Very close. Thank you for your help!
Something went wrong...
2 hrs

Reason/Rightness needs no noise, reason convinces.

Another possibility.
Note from asker:
Thank you for your help!
Something went wrong...
3 hrs

Reason is silent, calm, convincing. Reason is silent, calm, persuasive.

Not better than many other suggestions; however, I believe it is a possibility.

Mike :)
Note from asker:
Thank you for your help!
Something went wrong...
3 hrs

Right-wing political commentators are not reasonable

Couldn't resist
Note from asker:
Um, yeah, sometimes... Thank you! :-D
Something went wrong...
4 hrs

Arguments are won not by shouting, but by reasoning calmly

I think it must refer to arguments, otherwise it wouldn't mention "grita"
Note from asker:
Yeah, but it shifts attention from "la razón" to one of its concequences. It's a nice try anyway. Thank you for your help!
Something went wrong...
1 day 52 mins

The voice of truth does not yell, the voice of truth convinces

I like the voice. I also like the power of truth. May my humble proposal help you just a little!
:-)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days6 hrs (2009-07-13 23:55:27 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

:-)
It was a pleasure!
Note from asker:
Very nice, but a bit long for my purpose. Thank you for your proposal, help, and support!
Something went wrong...
+6
19 mins

Reason does not need to yell, it convinces

this is what some people have used in the past...
Newsvine - How to Install KDE 4.1 on Ubuntu 8.04 30 Jul 2008 ... Luis A. Ferre: "Reason does not need to yell, it convinces." Add To Watchlist. Articles Posted: 0; Links Seeded: 3570 ...
dturnbull.newsvine.com/_.../1708069-how-to-install-kde-41-on-ubuntu-804 - Cached - Similar
More results from dturnbull.newsvine.com »
PUERTO RICO HERALD: Luis A. Ferre (1904-2003) His thoughts have been compiled in many publications, but his best-known quote is: "Reason does not need to yell, it convinces." ...
www.puertorico-herald.org/issues/2003/.../LuisFerChron-en.h... - Similar
Who would win at Tennis; McCain or Obama? - Yahoo! Answers Donald Turnbull's column >> DONALD TURNBULL Luis A. Ferre: "Reason does not need to yell, it convinces."Articles Posted: 0; Links Seeded: 2969 ...
answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid... - Cached - Similar
Newsvine - Top Ten Reasons the Nintendo Wii is NOT the Greatest Luis A. Ferre: "Reason does not need to yell, it convinces." Add To Watchlist. Articles Posted: 0; Links Seeded: 3568. Member Since: 1/2006Last Seen: 5/18/ ...
com.newsvine.com/_.../1767458-top-ten-reasons-the-nintendo-wii-is-not-the-greatest - Cached - Similar
Viewing Profile Reason Does Not Need To Yell, It Convinces... Lo-Fi Version, Time is now: 27th June 2009 - 05:18 PM. Invision Power Board v2.1.4 © 2009 IPS, Inc.
www.hondasofnewengland.com/index.php?showuser=685 - Cached - Similar
dturnbull.newsvine.com - Donald Turnbull... - Tagfetcher.com ... Business Health Odd News More Arts Education Fashion History Home & Garden Religion Travel Luis A. Ferre: "Reason does not need to yell, it convinces. ...
www.tagfetcher.com/url/dturnbull.newsvine.com - Cached - Similar
Newsvine - Why Rush Limbaugh is a leading American intellectual Luis A. Ferre: "Reason does not need to yell, it convinces." Add To Watchlist. Articles Posted: 0; Links Seeded: 3570. Member Since: 1/2006Last Seen: 6/18/ ...
www.newsvine.com/_.../2163012-why-rush-limbaugh-is-a-leadin... - Cached - Similar

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days7 hrs (2009-07-14 00:04:50 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

You failed.
Note from asker:
I am familiar with the current, standing translation, I am looking to improve on it. Thank you for your help!
Peer comment(s):
agree Luis Rey Ballesteros (Luiroi) : Also cited as "reason does not scream, reason convinces: Luis A. Ferré - Wikiquote - [ Traducir esta página ] 23 May 2007 ... [edit] Unsourced. Reason does not scream. Reason convinces. (La razón no grita, la razón convence. in Spanish) ... en.wikiquote.
11 mins
ah, many thanks Luis! ;-)
agree jude dabo
1 hr
thank you! ;-)
agree Remy Arce : Agree with Luis Rey, a famous quote from one of Puerto Rico's great leaders.
2 hrs
Thank you Remy! ;-)
agree Ray Ables
3 hrs
thank you Ray! ;-)
agree Gabriela Mejías : If the quote already exists, I'd go for it. Saludos, Edward. :)
5 hrs
Many thanks Gabriela! ;-)
agree liz askew : I am a firm believer in sticking to the original meaning.
2 days 16 hrs
thank you Liz, the asker wants to "improve on the standard translation"!
Something went wrong...
+3
13 mins

reasoning by persuasion, not shouting

...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 days14 hrs (2009-07-15 07:58:39 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

I am unable to contribute in the discussion box.

Have you looked in DRAE to understand all the possible meanings of "razón". Unless I have missed something, "truth/verdad" is not one of them.

http://buscon.rae.es/draeI/SrvltObtenerHtml?LEMA=razón&SUPIN...
Note from asker:
Thank you for your help!
Peer comment(s):
agree Michael Powers (PhD) : Well state, Liz - Mike :)
2 hrs
Thank you! This is what I try to do with my 16 year old son, realising that "shouting" does not work at all:-)
agree Ray Ables : I like this one as well
3 hrs
Thank you!
agree teju : Nice
7 hrs
Well, thank you!
Something went wrong...
1480 days

"If what you are saying is true, there is no need for yelling, the plain truth is enough to convince

"If what you are saying is true, there is no need for yelling, the plain truth is enough to convince ". I do not pretend to provide an english equivalent phrase, but just simply explain what's behind its meaning. The spirit behind this phrase is the following: There are people who enjoy,or success by taking advantage of others attention (naives) to stress out a whole bunch of arguments full of lies (too good to be true) supported by a drama, scandal, perhaps intimidation, bluffing, humiliation, or other kind of pressure such as threatening, or just simple lies, etc. ...you name it, to get what they want. They are able and willing to use all the keys available to open the lock. A wise listener would poetically respond to this wasted effort: "La razón no grita, convence." In other words, "Do not try to waste your time with me with all that crab by making such a scandal nor try to intimidate me in any way to proof your manure is true. Just show me the evidence, results, good examples, right self-behavior, etc... and that's all I need to believe you. The word "Razón" here refers to "being right" , and the verb "Gritar" (Yelling) allegorically speaking refers to "going around the bushes" or "wasted effort" that is not worthy nor make any contribution to help others believe or agree with the argument presented.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1480 days (2013-07-31 15:45:40 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

In Puerto Rico there was a Governor (politician), Luis A. Ferré that used (or created) that phrase to describe his opponents political arguments.
Something went wrong...
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