Glossary entry

English term or phrase:

precisely

Turkish translation:

muhakkak

Added to glossary by SeiTT
Nov 28, 2009 08:14
14 yrs ago
English term

precisely

English to Turkish Art/Literary Religion The Gospel
Hi,

I'm writing an essay on Jesus Christ. What I wish to say is, “Precisely because of this goodness (i.e. God’s goodness), this justice, His (God’s) expectations of us are far greater (i.e. than the expectations we have or ourselves and one another).”

I'd better give as much context as I can as the subject may not be at all familiar to some of you. It follows after the body of this communication. I've used "tam" for "precisely" but am not satisfied with it - I find it a bit weak, somehow. But maybe I am wrong about this. That's the problem of not being a native speaker!

It is only with great reluctance that I have entered this under “religion” as I am most certainly not advocating a religion as the answer but rather a way, a love relationship, with the Lord Jesus Christ.

All the best, and many thanks,

Simon

Context:

Peki, ama Tanrı bu konuyu nasıl görüyor? Biz kendilerimizi iyi zannedebiliriz, ama Tanrı ne diyor? Tanrı’nın çok çok iyi, hatta hatasız olduğunu herkes bilir. Çok kutsal, çok adaletli. Ama tam bu iyilik, bu kutsallık, bu adaletten dolayı bize karşı olan beklentileri çok daha fazla. Tanrı bizi şöyle görüyor. Sen hayatında hiç yalan söyledin mi? O zaman yalancısın. Hiç küfrettin mi? O zaman küfürbazsın. Para çaldın mı? O zaman hırsızsın! Tanrı kendi cennetine yalancılar ya da küfürbazlar ya da hırsızlar hiç bir zaman kabul edemez.

Kutsal Kitab’ın Romalılara Mektub'un 3. Bölümünden 23. Ayeti şunu yazıyor: ‘… herkes günah işledi ve Tanrı'nın yüceliğinden yoksun kaldı.’ Başka bir deyişle, hatasız kul olmaz. Bunu kabul etmeyenler Tanrı’yı yalancılıkla suçlamış oluyorlar.

Discussion

SeiTT (asker) Dec 3, 2009:
Many thanks - very useful indeed.
Now ... more focus on the context.

Firstly, let me reformulate your sentence:
Ama tam bu iyiliği, bu kutsallığı ve adaletinden dolayı, bizden beklentisi (beklentileri) daha fazla OR bizden çok şey bekliyor
(precisely = tam or other synonyms...)


OR


Ama tam bu iyilik, bu kutsallık ve adalet, bize olan beklentilerini arttırıyor

In this context, I think tam or tamamen are "precisely" what you need. I don't see any error with your tam...

PS: I am aware, that my translation might not 100 % reflect the source text, but I always watch the show with the audience :)
Keep well!
SeiTT (asker) Dec 1, 2009:
Many thanks... for the corrections and also for the extremely valuable warning that I must watch out for "Şüphesiz ki..."!

It is precisely this kind of religious terminology we wish to avoid in the Turkish Church. I did a quick search, and it seems that "Şüphesiz ki..." is not even used once in the modern translation of the Bible. The older translations were, I believe, done by people who weren’t actually followers of Jesus.

http://www.kutsalkitap.com/kkitap/?

As for doubt, it's human, nothing to throw up one’s arms in horror about. Jesus didn't do this either – look up what happened with one of His disciples, nicknamed “Doubting Thomas”(John 20:24).

All through the Bible you'll find people doubting God. So long as they are honest about their doubts and don't let them fester away unseen God is extraordinarily understanding with them.
A small edit:=) Dear SeiTT,

Firstly, I should say I am quite impressed with your translation. Few errors caught my eye though and I thaught I could help you there a little.

O zaman hırsızsın! Tanrı kendi cennetine yalancıları ya da küfürbazları ya da hırsızları hiçbir zaman kabul edemez. (very trivial errors: I have added 'ı' to yalancılar, küfürbazlar etc; no hiç bir but hiçbir)

Kutsal Kitap’ın / Mektup'un / (besides the sentence needs to be revised I think)
şunu yazıyor => (it is not wrong but I think I would rather say) şöyle geçmektedir OR şöyle geçer Or şöyle geçiyor

Greetings,

Binnur
Me neither A good point, Emin!
Erkan Dogan Dec 1, 2009:
neither would I...
Emin Arı Dec 1, 2009:
"Şüphesiz ki" points dogmatic structure of religio As religous dogma wants belief of believer without any doubt, criticism, I think "şüphesiz ki" would be better answer. You may see this word in many places of Holly book. By the way, I would never think of any hidden agenda of Asker.
SeiTT (asker) Nov 29, 2009:
Dear Mr Yıldırım,

I'm not sure if I fully catch your drift but I can assure you that the last thing I wish for is to be confrontational in any way.

The idea of “my religion vs your religion” couldn't be further from my mind. As I am always at pains to point out, true Christianity is a love relationship, a path, not a religion, so the question of competition doesn't even arise.

God bless you,

Simon
Salih YILDIRIM Nov 28, 2009:
WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO REMIND DEAR ASKER "SeiTT" would be kindly to quit preferring its text out of specifically Christiasnity-related text (although accompanying an excuse, as with this one), especially its time, just when islamic word is having its holliest religious holiday, it might (should) have been asked to read ONLY "precisely" (with footnote "religion related" or else). Am I mistaken as a devoted linguist?
Nuri Razi Nov 28, 2009:
For example Nazım Hikmet used the word "muhakkak" For example the eminent Turkish poet Nazım Hikmet used this word and the below definition is from TDK (Turkish Language Society):

Doğruluğu, gerçekliği kesin olarak bilinen, gerçekliği kesinleşmiş:
"Yalnız muhakkak olan bir şey varsa o da, Orhan'ın bana fena hâlde âşık olduğudur."- N. Hikmet.

zarf Kesinlikle:
"Her birinin muhakkak bir yakın arkadaşı vardır."- E. Şafak.
Nuri Razi Nov 28, 2009:
"Muhakkak" is a word used in daily life. The word "Muhakkak" even of an Arabic origin, it is used widely and commonly in daily life. There so many words with arabic and persian origin in Turkish, which have a common use in daily life. So the word "muhakkak" is one of them and do not just pertain to Islamic text, nothwithsanding the Islam is the core of Turkish culture.
Bumin Nov 28, 2009:
muhakkak Muhakkak would be a choice with some distinction, but not sure for this context, though the world is Arabic (origin) and much belong to islamic dictionary (your text is not). Also 'Hak' in 'Muhakkak' means Allah. Details for people, if only your client is a theologist.

Proposed translations

+5
3 mins
Selected

muhakkak

"muhakkak ki.."

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Note added at 6 mins (2009-11-28 08:20:56 GMT)
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"Muhakkak ki bu iyilik, bu kutsallık, bu adaletten dolayı bize karşı olan beklentileri çok daha fazla."

Similar sentence:
'Muhakkak ki Allah, adaleti, iyiliği, akrabaya yardım etmeyi emreder, çirkin işleri, fenalık ve azgınlığı da yasaklar. O, düşünüp tutasınız diye size böyle...'
Peer comment(s):

agree olger : katılıyorum
2 mins
Teşekkür ederim.
agree Nigar Mancini
37 mins
Teşekkür ederim.
agree Erkan Dogan : True
38 mins
Teşekkür ederim.
agree Abdullah Yetim : ...size böylece öğüt verir. (missing part of similar sentence)
2 hrs
Teşekkür ederim.
agree Fatih Mehmet Şen : muhakkak ki katılıyorum :)
3 hrs
Teşekkür ederim.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "many thanks excellent"
+1
12 mins

Kuşkusuz

I think you make intonation on "doubtfullnes" rather than surety.
Peer comment(s):

agree Erkan Dogan : Meant "doubtlessness"? Also true...
29 mins
Teşekkür Ederim. Mutlu Bayramlar.
Something went wrong...
+2
39 mins

tam manasıyla

"Tam manasıyla bu fazilet (Allah'ın fazileti) ve bu adaletten (Allah'ın adaleti) dolayı, onun bizden beklentileri (bizim kendimizden veya birbirimizden olan beklentilerimizden) kat ve kat daha fazladır."

Tanrı and Allah would be interchangeable based on your preference.
Peer comment(s):

agree ATIL KAYHAN : Gerci ben "tam anlamiyla" derdim ama ayni anlam.
8 hrs
Teşekkür ederim.
agree Binnur Tuncel van Pomeren : Ben "tam" derdim, ama tabi ki bu da dogru ve atil arkadasin yazdigi da dogru.
2 days 4 hrs
Teşekkür ederim.
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+3
1 hr

şüphesiz (ki)

this way it enhances meaning, like in holly books
Peer comment(s):

agree Bumin : if you mean "no doubt about God's yyyyy", this is the best.
3 hrs
thanks
agree Erkan Dogan : "Şüphesiz ki bu fazilet (Allah'ın fazileti) ve bu adaletten (Allah'ın adaleti) dolayı, onun bizden beklentileri (bizim kendimizden veya birbirimizden beklentilerimizden) kat ve kat daha fazladır." Just fits perfectly! I would use this one absolutely!
9 hrs
teşekkürler...
agree Binnur Tuncel van Pomeren : took a while to digest...sorry for delay.:)
3 days 3 hrs
thanks...
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+1
2 hrs

özellikle, tam olarak

Kelime anlamı genellikle "tek doğru olarak" gibi olsa da, görüşüme göre, bu metinde "özellikle de", "tam olarak" anlamına gelmektedir.

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Note added at 2 saat (2009-11-28 11:04:21 GMT)
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ve bana göre, Türkçe'de cümleye böyle oturmaktadır.
Peer comment(s):

agree eozge : ''Özellikle'' ya da 'Tam da'' bu iyilikten dolayı....
1 day 10 hrs
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5 hrs

Kesinlikle

Boyle de yorumlanabilir.
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