Glossary entry (derived from question below)
English term or phrase:
a friend of Pat
English answer:
John is a friend of Pat
Added to glossary by
Dave Calderhead
Oct 16, 2006 17:28
17 yrs ago
English term
Brazil
a friend of Pat
English
Art/Literary
Cinema, Film, TV, Drama
Is it possible to refer to a person as "a friend of Pat" and not "a friend of Pat´s"??
The reason I ask is because my husband, an Englishman, says it is, but he cannot come up with a plausible (grammar) explanation...
Thanks!
The reason I ask is because my husband, an Englishman, says it is, but he cannot come up with a plausible (grammar) explanation...
Thanks!
Responses
| 3 +6 | John is a friend of Pat |
Dave Calderhead
|
| 5 +2 | From The Chicago Manual of Style |
Alexander Demyanov
|
| 4 +2 | a friend of Pat's but see below |
maryrose
|
| 5 | a friend of Pat's |
Monica Colangelo
|
| 4 | Yes. He's a friend of Pat/ he's Pat's friend |
Anna Maria Augustine (X)
|
Responses
+6
7 mins
Dave Calderhead
Netherlands
Netherlands
Native in English
&
English
Works in field
Netherlands
Reliable translations, reasonable rates
Native in: English
Works in: Dutch to English, English
Related KudoZ points
:
24
Selected
John is a friend of Pat
is perfectly good grammar, IMHO
in fact "is a friend of Pat's" contains a redundancy, because Pat's means 'of Pat'
in fact "is a friend of Pat's" contains a redundancy, because Pat's means 'of Pat'
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "thanks everybody!"
5 mins
Monica Colangelo
Argentina
Argentina
Works in field
Argentina
45 yrs' experience in most every field
Native in: Spanish (Variants: Latin American, Puerto Rican, Dominican, Standard-Spain, Uruguayan, Bolivian, Argentine, US, Rioplatense) 
Works in: English to Spanish, Spanish to English, Spanish, and 1 more.
a friend of Pat's
The reason is simple: if you replace Pat with the corresponding pronoun, you would then say "a friend of he". Does that sound correct? No, you say: "a friend of mine", "a friend of yours", etc.
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Angela Dickson (X)
: forget logic - 'a friend of Pat' is perfectly good English.//This is a grammar explanation as to why 'A friend of Pat' is incorrect English - it is not incorrect English.
10 mins
|
|
It's not a matter of logic, just good grammar.
|
|
| agree |
maryrose
: The asker wanted a "plausible (grammar) explanation". Here it is.
4 hrs
|
+2
6 mins
Alexander Demyanov
Works in field
Software Engineering background
Native in: Russian 
Works in: English, Russian, Russian to English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
12
From The Chicago Manual of Style
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Dave Calderhead
3 mins
|
|
Thanks, Dave.
|
|
| agree |
Yavor Dimitrov
23 hrs
|
|
Thanks, Tangra.
|
6 mins
Anna Maria Augustine (X)
France
Native in English
&
English
Works in field
Related KudoZ points
:
12
Yes. He's a friend of Pat/ he's Pat's friend
Why are you looking for grammar? We are not quite so fussy about it really. We just know when something is said in such and such a way.
+2
5 hrs
a friend of Pat's but see below
This is in extremely common form in written and spoken English.
Michael Swann says (in "Practical English Usage" - the bible of current usage which Proz CELTA and TOEFL holders will know):
"434. Possessives with of (a friend of mine etc)
determiner+noun+of+possessive
That policeman is a friend of mine
I met a friend of Lucy's yesterday
She is a friend of my father's
...
The structure has a variant in which the noun does not have possessive 's: this is sometimes used when talking about relationships:
He is a cousin of the Queen.
She is a friend of my father"
(page 435)
So in British English at least, "a friend of Pat's" is the preferred form and "a friend of Pat" is also acceptable (though to my ears it sounds unnatural - purely personal comment)
He is a cousin of the Queen.
She is a friend of my father
Michael Swann says (in "Practical English Usage" - the bible of current usage which Proz CELTA and TOEFL holders will know):
"434. Possessives with of (a friend of mine etc)
determiner+noun+of+possessive
That policeman is a friend of mine
I met a friend of Lucy's yesterday
She is a friend of my father's
...
The structure has a variant in which the noun does not have possessive 's: this is sometimes used when talking about relationships:
He is a cousin of the Queen.
She is a friend of my father"
(page 435)
So in British English at least, "a friend of Pat's" is the preferred form and "a friend of Pat" is also acceptable (though to my ears it sounds unnatural - purely personal comment)
He is a cousin of the Queen.
She is a friend of my father
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