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Definite article VS no article

Glossary entry

English term or phrase:

about time you get/got a haircut

English answer:

about time you got a haircut

Added to glossary by Oliver Simões
Aug 18, 2023 16:15
9 mos ago
50 viewers *
English term

about time you get/got a haircut

English Other Other English Grammar
Quoted from the WordReference website:

I think “It’s about time + subject + ” is a source of confusion even for native speakers. If I need a haircut and someone tells me: “your hair looks terrible, it’s about time you got/get a haircut”, I’d understand it either way as referring to a future action. I would probably say this using “get” and not “got” for no obvious reason that I know. To complicate things the usage of present tense may not even be acceptable in BrE. (mhp, Senior Member)

I learned in English Grammar that the past tense here implies an action that should have been performed whereas the present indicates it's time to do it now. My questions:

1) Doesn't this distinction also hold true in American/Canadian English?
2) Which one is more common?
3. If "get" is widely used with this meaning, is it grammatically acceptable? (I mean in the US.)

I appreciate answers only from those who respect me as a non-native English learner/speaker. No smart alecks, please.

Thanks in advance.
Responses
4 +6 about time you got a haircut
3 Both

Discussion

Oliver Simões (asker) Aug 21, 2023:
Thanks! Thank you all for your comments. I'll go w/ the majority, who picked Yvonne's answer. TY, Darius. In response to your comments: I like the concept of "acceptable" vs. "unacceptable" better. Kudos to the guy who said a genius is never 100% sure of anything. :-) Indeed what makes a language is its users. Some rules are totally arbitrary, such as the double negative in English, which was decided against by a guy named Robert Lowth, who thought the same principle of mathematics that says that two negatives make a positive should be applied to EN. In his view, a double negative sentence was an affirmation! Most contemporary English speakers may not be aware that Shakespeare and the first version of the King James Bible had plenty of double negatives: https://n9.cl/vsxeb Interestingly enough, the Romance languages do not have such rule, so we can use double negatives to our hearts' content. :-) Some of the names you mentioned sound familiar from college, e.g. Celce-Murcia. Btw, I used her book in my English grammar course. She takes a transformational generative approach (based on Chomsky's universal grammar), which was a great way to deepen my knowledge of English grammar.
Oliver Simões (asker) Aug 21, 2023:
@Mark I'm well aware of what you just said. Of course, sociolinguistics is not prescriptive, it's descriptive in nature. I think it's something to be aware of because some people tend to cling to their grammar rules, refusing to accept the fact that communication is the essential element, not the form so to speak. There was no need to define or explain "accepted usages". I was a former languague teacher so I am very well aware of that. Again, there's no such thing as "right" or "wrong" from a sociolinguistc standpoint.
Mark Robertson Aug 20, 2023:
@Oliver The only reason there is no such thing as right or wrong usage in sociolinguistic terms, is that sociolinguistics is descriptive and not prescriptive. The fact that sociolinguistics cannot make such a statement therefore goes to the nature of sociolinguistics, its basic assumptions, theoretical object, and methodology, not to the nature of usage. The existence of ranges of accepted usages does not mean there are no correct or incorrect usages. If you want to know what correct or incorrect usage is, don't ask a sociolinguist...
Darius Saczuk Aug 19, 2023:
In the example provided by Oliver I would always say, "got" (Randolph Quirk's Grammar is my language Bible), but I also agree with descriptive linguists (etc. Pinker, Celce-Murcia, Larsen Freeman), who just explain how language works without trying to impose any artificial rules. By the way, the visionary British English teacher L.G. Alexander adopted this language approach when writing English as a second language textbooks already in the 1970's.
Darius Saczuk Aug 19, 2023:
Ice Scream Interesting examples from Scotland. Again, it all depends on the approach we want to adopt (prescriptive vs. descriptive). If a large social group of native speakers starts to use a given form, then this form (word, phrase, collocation, phoneme, etc.) is technically "correct" (acceptable). Obviously, It may not adhere to the prescriptive rules of a given language variety, but if people use it, then it is linguistically acceptable. The thing is language evolves regardless of prescriptive grammars, which are formalized sets of stiff rules that quite often cannot catch up with how language works. Since its inception, for instance, the Académie Française has been trying to impose strict rules with regards to what is correct or not in the French language, but French (like all languages) is constantly changing, and French speakers "break" the prescriptive rules all the time. The United States does not even have an academy of the English language (I don't think the UK has it either) because it would be a waste of public funds. Having said that, I also agree that adherence to various prescriptive rules is justified in many formal contexts (school, work, etc.).
Christopher Schröder Aug 19, 2023:
Darius In parts of South Wales, people say “Where to are you?”. Usage can easily trump grammar, but it doesn’t make it correct English. Btw in my area, people say “Where are you by?”…
Tony M Aug 18, 2023:
@ Asker I agree with Jane and Charlotte: in EN-GB, it really needs to be 'got'.
I think you are getting confused here because, although 'got' LOOKS like a past tense, it isn't — it is in fact the subjunctive as in "If I were you..."
The subjunctive is used because of course there is a doubt as to whether or not they are actually going to get a haircut!
Darius Saczuk Aug 18, 2023:
Generally, contemporary linguists look at language from a descriptive point of view, and they avoid terms such as "right" or "wrong". Instead, terms such as "acceptable/non-acceptable to a native speaker" are often used. I highly recommend Steven Pinker's "Language Instinct", which discusses said issue in detail. Also, I personally agree with Richard Feynman, a brilliant physicist, who always stated that great minds are never one hundred percent sure of anything. In language there are a lot of gray areas and blind spots, and one can look at it from various angles. In NYC, many young people say, "Where are you at?" as opposed to "Where are you?". Obviously, no native speaker would say, "Where at are you?" as it would violate the underlying rules of English grammar.
Oliver Simões (asker) Aug 18, 2023:
@All Thank you for the feedback. So from what I understood, the simple past ("got") is the standard form in English/British grammar. As far as American usage, both forms are acceptable, according to Darius. I'd like to add that, from a sociolinguistic standpoint, there is no such thing as "right" or "wrong" forms of expression. As long as communication takes place between the sender and receiver of a message, we are good to go. Of course, as translators/linguists, we need to be cognizant of standard grammar, hence the question. On the other hand, I wonder if common usage makes the "wrong" "right".
Britta Norris Aug 18, 2023:
As Charlotte says. :)
Helena Chavarria Aug 18, 2023:
I agree with JaneD and Charlotte for UK English.
JaneD Aug 18, 2023:
Sadly spending a lot of time on WordReference isn't an indication of being familiar with correct language use. I'd definitely say "it's about time you got a haircut". (UK English)
Charlotte Fleming Aug 18, 2023:
I don't know about US English, but you also mentioned GB English and "It's about time you got..." is the acceptable usage for us. "... you get..." would definitely not be normal.

Responses

+6
21 hrs
Selected

about time you got a haircut

with others in Dbox that after "it's about time" it has to be "got", on both sides of the pond I believe.
Basically it's saying that: "really you should have got(ten) a haircut before now as it looks dreadful so why not go and get one immediately!"

Some people, natives included, don't always use grammatically-correct phrasing e.g. the many examples of "I seen", "I done", I would of..." which make me cringe. I can't ever see these being acceptable as correct usage, no matter how common they become. I hope not anyway!
Of course language changes over time and some prescriptive grammar rules get more relaxed. Since Tony mentioned the Subjunctive, I remember (around 1998) when the rule where that was a requirement in the 2nd Conditional construction: "If I were you" was relaxed so that the Past Simple was acceptable "If I was you" . I was teaching EFL at the time and one day (around 1998) ONLY the Subjunctive was allowed until our Director of Studies called all teachers to a meeting and told us it had now been decided (I think by an international board that runs EFL exams) that we could now teach the alternative Past Simple construction as well as it was being increasingly used by native speakers.

There may not be an Académie as in France but various international bodies, including the British Council, through language courses and exams, prescribe "correct" (AKA "rich white men") grammar rules which often differ from descriptive or generative grammar. And, of course, there are the various style guides as well.
Anyway, I think we are all agreed on this particular one

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Note added at 3 days 18 hrs (2023-08-22 11:10:48 GMT) Post-grading
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I continue to use "If I were" also a) because it's what I'm used to saying and b) because it's nice to have a few subjunctives left in English when I had to work soooo hard to learn so many subjunctives in French and Spanish!
However, it seems most natives "If I was" these days. Only people of a certain vintage use the subjunctive so it will probably die off with us.
Peer comment(s):
agree Helena Chavarria
6 hrs
Many thanks:-)
agree philgoddard
8 hrs
Many thanks:-)
agree Cilian O'Tuama : It's time you got v. It's time (for you) to get.
11 hrs
Exactly! Thanks:-)
agree Anna Wright : It's time you got a haircut, i.e. it's time + you did sth ("about time/high time" implies you should have done it before now/have left it late); it's time [for you] to do sth (=the right moment has arrived to do sth)
1 day 12 mins
Many thanks. Completely agree
agree Emily Gilby
1 day 16 hrs
many thanks:-)
agree Irena Buha
21 days
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you for your insights. Your example of "If I was" as an acceptable subjunctive form was to the point. I had no idea it is now okay to use it. I'll probably stick to "if I were". :-)"
11 mins

Both

In American English the present tense is frequently used. As far as I know, in BrE the Simple Past tense would be used, and it could qualify as a type of "UNREAL PAST", i.e.
a range of structures that employ past tenses (Simple and Progressive) to talk about the present or future, e.g. "It's (high/about) time you left for work" - you are probably a bit late.

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Note added at 38 mins (2023-08-18 16:54:08 GMT)
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An example from Forbes:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/charlesbeames/2022/07/29/it-is-...

Forbes
Innovation Science
It Is Time You Get To Know Kalina
Charles Beames
Contributor
I write about the future of the commercial space industry.

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Note added at 9 hrs (2023-08-19 01:34:23 GMT)
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More AmE examples:
https://www.sc.edu/uofsc/posts/2021/11/11_conversation_chief...
Chief Keef changed the music industry – and it’s time he gets the credit he deserves.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2023-08-19 01:39:19 GMT)
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Boston Celtics Head Coach Defends Kemba Walker After ...
EssentiallySports
https://www.essentiallysports.com › NBA
Jan 30, 2021 — While nobody on the Celtics squad will throw Kemba under the bus, it is time he starts becoming more accountable.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2023-08-19 01:40:10 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The Cavalier Daily
https://www.cavalierdaily.com › article › 2022/10 › la...
Oct 11, 2022 — Whether he likes it or not, Youngkin is the governor of Virginia and it is time he starts putting the Commonwealth first before thinking ...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2023-08-19 01:42:55 GMT)
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United States House Committee on Oversight and Accountability - (.gov)
https://oversight.house.gov › Press Releases
Mar 3, 2023 — The Biden Administration has ignored the damage it has done to the economy for far too long, and it is time they are held accountable.
Peer comment(s):
neutral writeaway : I've never noticed a UK/US divide on this one/one refers more to the immediate present (it's time you get up (ie NOW) and the other to more a statement of fact/what you should do: it's time you got up
57 mins
As I indicated above, in US English (from a descriptive point of view), the Simple Present tense is frequently used. I am an old school linguist, so I use the past tense. However, a lot of US English speakers use the present tense.
neutral philgoddard : I'd say got, and I don't accept that there's a US/UK difference.
8 hrs
Hi Phil, I would say, "got", too. However, the present tense is commonly used in US English after "it's time".
neutral Christopher Schröder : I think it’s time and it’s about time are slightly different
17 hrs
neutral Yvonne Gallagher : no difference, never heard any native say "get" on either side of the pond
20 hrs
The present tense is frequently used here, and that's why I provided a few examples from US sources. Speaking from a prescriptive point of view, "got" is obviously the correct form.
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