Glossary entry (derived from question below)
English term or phrase:
\'relation between\' or \'relationship between\'
English answer:
either
Added to glossary by
Jeannie Graham
Jul 28, 2011 15:06
12 yrs ago
32 viewers *
English term
'relation between' or 'relationship between'
English
Social Sciences
Philosophy
Academic text in British English, Oxford style guide
I am editing a philosophical text that has been translated from a source language by a translator using mostly American English it seems. My instructions are to follow the Oxford style guide. I am also a British native speaker.
Frequently in the text 'relation between' has been used. My instinct is to change this to 'relationship between', but I am not confident that this change is not more than just British/US style usage. I am concerned I may change the meaning of the philosophical concepts presented!
I would like confirmation that it is acceptable and correct to use 'relationship between' instead of 'relation between' in examples such as the ones below:
1. 'It involves a real relation/relationship between x as cause and y as effect. If beings were distinct heterogeneous entities, there would be no real relation/relationship between them, since each being would then be entirely alien to any other being'.
2.'Hence, everything bears the same relation/relationship to everything else, because no relation/relationship whatsoever holds between two things'.
3. 'The second point is that a causal relation/relationship does not exist between nonbeings'.
4. 'We consider nonbeing as an external property or relation/relationship of things'.
Any help appreciated. Thanks
Frequently in the text 'relation between' has been used. My instinct is to change this to 'relationship between', but I am not confident that this change is not more than just British/US style usage. I am concerned I may change the meaning of the philosophical concepts presented!
I would like confirmation that it is acceptable and correct to use 'relationship between' instead of 'relation between' in examples such as the ones below:
1. 'It involves a real relation/relationship between x as cause and y as effect. If beings were distinct heterogeneous entities, there would be no real relation/relationship between them, since each being would then be entirely alien to any other being'.
2.'Hence, everything bears the same relation/relationship to everything else, because no relation/relationship whatsoever holds between two things'.
3. 'The second point is that a causal relation/relationship does not exist between nonbeings'.
4. 'We consider nonbeing as an external property or relation/relationship of things'.
Any help appreciated. Thanks
Responses
| 4 +2 | either |
B D Finch
|
| 3 +4 | Stay with 'relation' |
Demi Ebrite
|
| 2 | "relation" in a philosophical context |
vierama
|
References
| Usage in BrEN and AmEN. |
D. I. Verrelli
|
Responses
+2
35 mins
Selected
either
Both are used and it is a matter of personal preference
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Note added at 44 mins (2011-07-28 15:51:13 GMT)
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"Following Stephen Ross’ edited collection Modernism and Theory: A Critical Debate (2009) which seeks ‘to recapture the continuities among modernism and theory’, this event will address specific concerns about the relationship between historical and theoretical approaches to modernism (in its various definitions), local and transnational locations, canonical and marginalised thinkers, political and philosophical readings."
http://www.gla.ac.uk/departments/snms/interceptionssymposium...
"... examines the relationship between different forms of knowledge about the .... American Anthropological Association's style guide for in-text citations ..."
www.ames.cam.ac.uk/dmes/islamic/MES20-syllabus-2011-12.pdf
";www.qeh.ox.ac.uk/pdf/pdf.../MSc MS Handbook 2010-11.pdf
The relation between migratory processes, immigration controls and labour markets ..... change: how can migration studies best approach the relationship between ...... A style guide can be found in the back of any issue of the journal; ..."
";www.qeh.ox.ac.uk/pdf/pdf.../MSc MS Handbook 2010-11.pdf
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 44 mins (2011-07-28 15:51:13 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
"Following Stephen Ross’ edited collection Modernism and Theory: A Critical Debate (2009) which seeks ‘to recapture the continuities among modernism and theory’, this event will address specific concerns about the relationship between historical and theoretical approaches to modernism (in its various definitions), local and transnational locations, canonical and marginalised thinkers, political and philosophical readings."
http://www.gla.ac.uk/departments/snms/interceptionssymposium...
"... examines the relationship between different forms of knowledge about the .... American Anthropological Association's style guide for in-text citations ..."
www.ames.cam.ac.uk/dmes/islamic/MES20-syllabus-2011-12.pdf
";www.qeh.ox.ac.uk/pdf/pdf.../MSc MS Handbook 2010-11.pdf
The relation between migratory processes, immigration controls and labour markets ..... change: how can migration studies best approach the relationship between ...... A style guide can be found in the back of any issue of the journal; ..."
";www.qeh.ox.ac.uk/pdf/pdf.../MSc MS Handbook 2010-11.pdf
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "thank you. Taking answers here and further research into account, it really seems to be that AE has a preference for 'relation', whilst BE uses either, with a slight preference for 'relationship'. As I am editing into BE and as a native speaker of BE, 'relationship' tends to feel more natural to me. I have in any case contacted the client to point this out and ask for their opinion on this, to cover myself."
59 mins
"relation" in a philosophical context
World English Dictionary
relation (rɪˈleɪʃən)
— n
1. the state or condition of being related or the manner in which things are related
2. connection by blood or marriage; kinship
3. a person who is connected by blood or marriage; relative; kinsman
4. reference or regard (esp in the phrase in or with relation to )
5. the position, association, connection, or status of one person or thing with regard to another or others
6. the act of relating or narrating
7. an account or narrative
8. law the principle by which an act done at one time is regarded in law as having been done antecedently
9. law the statement of grounds of complaint made by a relator
10. logic, maths
a. an association between ordered pairs of objects, numbers, etc, such as … is greater than …
b. the set of ordered pairs whose members have such an association
11. philosophy
a. internal relation: a relation that necessarily holds between its relata, as 4 is greater than 2
b. external relation: a relation that does not so hold
compare:
World English Dictionary
relationship (rɪˈleɪʃənʃɪp)
— n
1. the state of being connected or related
2. association by blood or marriage; kinship
3. the mutual dealings, connections, or feelings that exist between two parties, countries, people, etc: a business relationship
4. an emotional or sexual affair or liaison
5. logic, maths another name for relation
relation (rɪˈleɪʃən)
— n
1. the state or condition of being related or the manner in which things are related
2. connection by blood or marriage; kinship
3. a person who is connected by blood or marriage; relative; kinsman
4. reference or regard (esp in the phrase in or with relation to )
5. the position, association, connection, or status of one person or thing with regard to another or others
6. the act of relating or narrating
7. an account or narrative
8. law the principle by which an act done at one time is regarded in law as having been done antecedently
9. law the statement of grounds of complaint made by a relator
10. logic, maths
a. an association between ordered pairs of objects, numbers, etc, such as … is greater than …
b. the set of ordered pairs whose members have such an association
11. philosophy
a. internal relation: a relation that necessarily holds between its relata, as 4 is greater than 2
b. external relation: a relation that does not so hold
compare:
World English Dictionary
relationship (rɪˈleɪʃənʃɪp)
— n
1. the state of being connected or related
2. association by blood or marriage; kinship
3. the mutual dealings, connections, or feelings that exist between two parties, countries, people, etc: a business relationship
4. an emotional or sexual affair or liaison
5. logic, maths another name for relation
+4
38 mins
Stay with 'relation'
Definition of relation: "an aspect or quality (as resemblance) that connects two or more things or parts as being or belonging or working together or as being of the same kind <the relation of time and space>; specifically : a property (as one expressed by is equal to, is less than, or is the brother of) that holds between an ordered pair of objects "
Definition of relationship: ": the relation connecting or binding participants in a relationship: as a : kinship b : a specific instance or type of kinship "
In the philosophical statements sited in your example, I don't see a debate for any sort of "kinship", but more an aspect that connects two things. It is my opinion that "relation" is correctly used in these examples.
The reference link is to the definition of "relation" in the online " Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy".
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Note added at 1 hr (2011-07-28 16:37:50 GMT)
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A suggestion may be to search through:
"Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy" http://plato.stanford.edu/
"Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy" http://www.iep.utm.edu/
"Philosophy Resources at Harvard: Dictionaries & Encyclopedias:
http://hcl.harvard.edu/research/guides/philosophy/#second
Searching "relate" "relationship" and "kinship" may help with this answer.
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Note added at 1 hr (2011-07-28 16:48:21 GMT)
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Charles and Barbara, you may be entirely correct with regard to the BE usage (in philosophical writings), but I would recommend that kalimeh not alter that particular usage in her edit, as the translation is not incorrect, and if the words are interchangeable, in which instance should she choose to change from 'relation' to 'relationship'? In her example #2, for instance, I feel that 'relation' works, whereas 'relationship' does not. Personally, I would elect to keep 'relation' as the translator has written it.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
MSA-Translation
: To me, there does seem to be a significant difference in meaning. Based on my intuition from reading and writing a lot of philisophy for my degree in the subject, 'relation' seems far more likely in this kind of technical work, at least in AE.
2 hrs
|
|
Thank you, Michael. There are many instances like this one that can arise and it is a fine line to walk. I try to change as little as possible in a good translation, and in this case, I would leave "relate".
|
|
| agree |
Jim Tucker (X)
3 hrs
|
|
Thank you, Jim.
|
|
| agree |
Thuy-PTT (X)
6 days
|
|
Thank you, Thuy.
|
|
| agree |
D. I. Verrelli
: See reference notes to be posted below.
2393 days
|
Reference comments
2393 days
D. I. Verrelli
Australia
Australia
Native in English
&
English
Australia
Translator with Ph.D. in engineering.
Native in: English (Variants: New Zealand, Australian, UK, British, US, Canadian, Singaporean) 
Works in: German to English, Indonesian to English, English
Reference:
Usage in BrEN and AmEN.
FREQUENCY
There are some claims above regarding usage of "relation between" and "relationship between" (and similar constructions) in BrEN and AmEN.
To objectively assess that, we may examine frequencies of those phrases in the relevant corpora. REF: https://corpus.byu.edu
All texts in BNC (U.K.) and COCA (U.S.A.) corpora:
"relation between": BNC 671; COCA 2226
"relationship between": BNC 3737; COCA 18966
Percentage with "relation": BNC 15.2%; COCA 10.5%
Only academic texts in BNC (U.K.) and COCA (U.S.A.) corpora:
"relation between": BNC 510; COCA 2033
"relationship between": BNC 1690; COCA 13837
Percentage with "relation": BNC 23.2%; COCA 12.8%
Proportion of all occurrences of "relation" that were found in academic texts: BNC 76.0%; COCA 91.3%
So this indicates quite clearly to me that the construction with "relation" is more common in BrEN than it is in AmEN, contrary to some of the assertions provided. This is a substantial difference, being almost 50% more common in BrEN.
Additionally, there is a substantial increase in frequency when restricting the examination to only academic texts — especially for BrEN. Indeed, the great majority of occurrences of the construction with "relation" occur in academic texts.
When considering only academic texts, the construction with "relation" is almost twice as common in BrEN!
The impression on the part of some BrEN-favouring respondents that "relation" is 'less common in BrEN' may have resulted from a subconscious comparison to the usage of "relationship" in day-to-day BrEN (with which they were no doubt familiar), rather than a comparison to actual AmEN usage (with which they probably had less experience).
CONTEXT
Overall, my impression is that:
* "relation" tends to be used more often when specifying quantitative or factual connections;
* "relationship" tends to be used more to specify qualitative interactions [it could also be used as a more abstract noun].
But there is not necessarily an 'inviolable rule', and in practice the words are sometimes used as if they were synonyms (whether rightly or wrongly).
See also web references provided below.
PHILOSOPHY
I have no comments about usage that may be peculiar to philosophy. However, I agree that this would be important to check.
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Note added at 2393 days (2018-02-15 01:49:02 GMT) Post-grading
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BYU-BNC: contains 100 million words, British sources, from 1980s to 1993.
COCA: contains 520 million words, U.S. sources, from 1990 to 2015.
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Note added at 2398 days (2018-02-19 23:38:54 GMT) Post-grading
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See also: https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/home/library/pdfs/writers...
There are some claims above regarding usage of "relation between" and "relationship between" (and similar constructions) in BrEN and AmEN.
To objectively assess that, we may examine frequencies of those phrases in the relevant corpora. REF: https://corpus.byu.edu
All texts in BNC (U.K.) and COCA (U.S.A.) corpora:
"relation between": BNC 671; COCA 2226
"relationship between": BNC 3737; COCA 18966
Percentage with "relation": BNC 15.2%; COCA 10.5%
Only academic texts in BNC (U.K.) and COCA (U.S.A.) corpora:
"relation between": BNC 510; COCA 2033
"relationship between": BNC 1690; COCA 13837
Percentage with "relation": BNC 23.2%; COCA 12.8%
Proportion of all occurrences of "relation" that were found in academic texts: BNC 76.0%; COCA 91.3%
So this indicates quite clearly to me that the construction with "relation" is more common in BrEN than it is in AmEN, contrary to some of the assertions provided. This is a substantial difference, being almost 50% more common in BrEN.
Additionally, there is a substantial increase in frequency when restricting the examination to only academic texts — especially for BrEN. Indeed, the great majority of occurrences of the construction with "relation" occur in academic texts.
When considering only academic texts, the construction with "relation" is almost twice as common in BrEN!
The impression on the part of some BrEN-favouring respondents that "relation" is 'less common in BrEN' may have resulted from a subconscious comparison to the usage of "relationship" in day-to-day BrEN (with which they were no doubt familiar), rather than a comparison to actual AmEN usage (with which they probably had less experience).
CONTEXT
Overall, my impression is that:
* "relation" tends to be used more often when specifying quantitative or factual connections;
* "relationship" tends to be used more to specify qualitative interactions [it could also be used as a more abstract noun].
But there is not necessarily an 'inviolable rule', and in practice the words are sometimes used as if they were synonyms (whether rightly or wrongly).
See also web references provided below.
PHILOSOPHY
I have no comments about usage that may be peculiar to philosophy. However, I agree that this would be important to check.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2393 days (2018-02-15 01:49:02 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------
BYU-BNC: contains 100 million words, British sources, from 1980s to 1993.
COCA: contains 520 million words, U.S. sources, from 1990 to 2015.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2398 days (2018-02-19 23:38:54 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------
See also: https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/home/library/pdfs/writers...
Reference:
http://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-relation-and-vs-relationship/
http://www.learnersdictionary.com/qa/relations-and-relationship
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