Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
pénibilité
English translation:
hardship(s)
Added to glossary by
Victoria Porter-Burns
Nov 29, 2007 11:00
16 yrs ago
18 viewers *
French term
France
Accuracy & Professionalism
Native in: English 
Works in: French to English, Chinese to English, Chinese
pénibilité
French to English
Social Sciences
Government / Politics
This is from an article on the pension reforms in France. It refers to the particular difficulties facing 'les cheminots' for example working at night, working underground etc. I translated it as job-related inconveniences, see below, but I'm not sure if it's the correct term.
I also thought of work hazards - as during research I often found it coupled with 'les risques et pénibilités du travail' - but this seems a little strong in this context.
Lastly, the term 'conditions du travail' seems to overlap with 'pénibilité' when translated as working conditions. http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conditions_de_travail
Would terms of employment be more appropriate perhaps? Sorry for the long-winded question, hope everybody can make sense of it!
"Nous avons dit que tout le reste était négociable", a-t-il répété, citant les salaires "en particulier en fin de carrière", les "conditions de travail", la "pénibilité" et "l'aménagement des fins de carrière". Or, "tous ces sujets sont du ressort de la négociation dans l'entreprise, parce que les entreprises sont différentes et les régimes spéciaux ne sont pas les mêmes", a-t-il fait valoir.
‘We have stated that everything else is negotiable,’ he reaffirmed, mentioning specifically employee’s salaries ‘especially near the end of careers’, ‘working conditions’, ‘job-related inconveniences’ and ‘the adjustment of retirement ages’. He underlined, however, that ‘all of these are issues that should be negotiated between individual companies and their employees, as they all have varying conditions and pensions schemes.’
I also thought of work hazards - as during research I often found it coupled with 'les risques et pénibilités du travail' - but this seems a little strong in this context.
Lastly, the term 'conditions du travail' seems to overlap with 'pénibilité' when translated as working conditions. http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conditions_de_travail
Would terms of employment be more appropriate perhaps? Sorry for the long-winded question, hope everybody can make sense of it!
"Nous avons dit que tout le reste était négociable", a-t-il répété, citant les salaires "en particulier en fin de carrière", les "conditions de travail", la "pénibilité" et "l'aménagement des fins de carrière". Or, "tous ces sujets sont du ressort de la négociation dans l'entreprise, parce que les entreprises sont différentes et les régimes spéciaux ne sont pas les mêmes", a-t-il fait valoir.
‘We have stated that everything else is negotiable,’ he reaffirmed, mentioning specifically employee’s salaries ‘especially near the end of careers’, ‘working conditions’, ‘job-related inconveniences’ and ‘the adjustment of retirement ages’. He underlined, however, that ‘all of these are issues that should be negotiated between individual companies and their employees, as they all have varying conditions and pensions schemes.’
Proposed translations
(English)
Change log
Dec 4, 2007 17:18: Victoria Porter-Burns Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+8
13 mins
Victoria Porter-Burns
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
United Kingdom
BA(Hons) FITI MCIL CL ISO 17100:2015
Native in: English 
Works in: French to English, Spanish to English, English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
4
Selected
hardships associated with the job(s)
another suggestion
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Attorney DC Bar
7 mins
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Thanks rufinus :-)
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| agree |
Gacela20
15 mins
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Thank you Gacela:-)
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| agree |
malligajm
1 hr
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Thanks malligajm :-)
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| agree |
liz askew
2 hrs
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Thanks Liz :-)
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| agree |
Arleene McFarlane
6 hrs
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Thank you Arleene :-)
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| agree |
Jean-Claude Gouin
9 hrs
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Thank you 1045!
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| agree |
AllegroTrans
12 hrs
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Thanks AllegroTrans!
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| agree |
jean-jacques alexandre
20 hrs
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Merci J-J :-)
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "thanks for the help"
9 mins
Nina Iordache
Romania
Romania
Specializes in field
Romania
Native in: Romanian (Variant: Romania)
Works in: English to Romanian, French to English, French to Romanian, and 1 more.
rigors/viccissitudes/difficulties/hardship
Please choose a synonym that best fits your overall text.
9 mins
painfulness
*
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Note added at 11 mins (2007-11-29 11:11:41 GMT)
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[PDF] PrivilègesFormat de fichier: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Version HTML
prenant en otage toute la population au nom d'une pénibilité qui n'a plus lieu ... in the name of a painfulness which does not take place any more to be. ...
www.universality.info/mambo/index2.php?
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Note added at 11 mins (2007-11-29 11:11:41 GMT)
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[PDF] PrivilègesFormat de fichier: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Version HTML
prenant en otage toute la population au nom d'une pénibilité qui n'a plus lieu ... in the name of a painfulness which does not take place any more to be. ...
www.universality.info/mambo/index2.php?
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
siragui
: On the basis of your quote above, the link is a clumsy literal translation. "Painfulness" refers to "douleur", it's a physical reaction.
1 hr
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1 hr
overlaps
Some ideas:
DISABILITY ALLOWANCES
An extra payment to which employees become entitled when they carry out specific tasks or to compensate them for WORK UNDER PRESCRIBED CONDITIONS. Examples include DIRT MONEY and DANGER MONEY. The rates payable, and the circumstances under which they must be paid, are prescribed in awards.
http://www.wageline.qld.gov.au/glossary/index.html
[Glossary of common industrial relations terms)
Surprising, this! Despite the substantiation, I think "disability allowance" in this context would create more problems than it would solve.
Related discussion at http://www.proz.com/kudoz/772622
CONDITION MONEY
See DIRT MONEY. (ACE.)
DIRT MONEY
Additional payments to labour exposed to exceptionally bad working conditions. (ACE)
OR
An allowance payable where a worker is brought into contact with flue deposits, mud, water or other forms of poor site conditions. Where these deposits are proved corrosive an additional allowance is payable. Protective clothing must be provided by the employer. (A.C.E)
http://www.elpavo.co.za/terminology_D.php
ABNORMAL CONDITION MONEY
b) Are payments made to employees for abnormal conditions, such as, dirty money, danger money, height money etc
www.hmrc.gov.uk/lbo/questionnaire.pdf
Half-an-hour at a time was about all they could manage in those conditions, and even at that I think the extra 3d an hour CONDITION-MONEY they were paid was not unreasonable
www.istructe.org/thestructuralengineer/HC/getfile.asp?id=30...
unless safety precautions were adequate and CONDITION MONEY was paid. 232. ... to make allowance for some part of this expected differential settlement? ...
www.atypon-link.com/ITELF/doi/xml/10.1680/iicep.1967.8195
But basically I think you might want to include this under the global "conditions de travail". I have a nasty suspicion "pénibilité" was something invented in the course of difficult union negotiations as a means of giving workers extra money without the employers being seen to have given in to demands for extra "conditions de travail" money, by creating a disctint and originally "exceptional" category. As with taxes, however, you should never allow a new one to be created, for then it becomes generalized ...
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Note added at 1 hr (2007-11-29 12:09:22 GMT)
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Note that a/c to Larousse Lexis, the word "pénibilité" was coined as recently as 1960.
DISABILITY ALLOWANCES
An extra payment to which employees become entitled when they carry out specific tasks or to compensate them for WORK UNDER PRESCRIBED CONDITIONS. Examples include DIRT MONEY and DANGER MONEY. The rates payable, and the circumstances under which they must be paid, are prescribed in awards.
http://www.wageline.qld.gov.au/glossary/index.html
[Glossary of common industrial relations terms)
Surprising, this! Despite the substantiation, I think "disability allowance" in this context would create more problems than it would solve.
Related discussion at http://www.proz.com/kudoz/772622
CONDITION MONEY
See DIRT MONEY. (ACE.)
DIRT MONEY
Additional payments to labour exposed to exceptionally bad working conditions. (ACE)
OR
An allowance payable where a worker is brought into contact with flue deposits, mud, water or other forms of poor site conditions. Where these deposits are proved corrosive an additional allowance is payable. Protective clothing must be provided by the employer. (A.C.E)
http://www.elpavo.co.za/terminology_D.php
ABNORMAL CONDITION MONEY
b) Are payments made to employees for abnormal conditions, such as, dirty money, danger money, height money etc
www.hmrc.gov.uk/lbo/questionnaire.pdf
Half-an-hour at a time was about all they could manage in those conditions, and even at that I think the extra 3d an hour CONDITION-MONEY they were paid was not unreasonable
www.istructe.org/thestructuralengineer/HC/getfile.asp?id=30...
unless safety precautions were adequate and CONDITION MONEY was paid. 232. ... to make allowance for some part of this expected differential settlement? ...
www.atypon-link.com/ITELF/doi/xml/10.1680/iicep.1967.8195
But basically I think you might want to include this under the global "conditions de travail". I have a nasty suspicion "pénibilité" was something invented in the course of difficult union negotiations as a means of giving workers extra money without the employers being seen to have given in to demands for extra "conditions de travail" money, by creating a disctint and originally "exceptional" category. As with taxes, however, you should never allow a new one to be created, for then it becomes generalized ...
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Note added at 1 hr (2007-11-29 12:09:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Note that a/c to Larousse Lexis, the word "pénibilité" was coined as recently as 1960.
+4
1 hr
David BUICK
Native in English
Reactive, reliable, win/win service
Native in: English
Works in: French to English, English to French
Related KudoZ points
:
35
arduous nature
This is the word the Economist's Paris correspondent used in this context in a recent article.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
siragui
: "The arduous nature of the job" would fit.
19 mins
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| agree |
cmwilliams (X)
: arduous nature of the job
58 mins
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| agree |
Dylan Edwards
: A good version - this is quite close to "strenuousness", a translation I've seen for this word.
3 hrs
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| agree |
Jean-Claude Gouin
19 hrs
|
1 hr
drawbacks
perhaps a little less strong than hardships
Advantages and drawbacks to hourly fees and flat rates .... For all job and work-related news, or to search for a job and get information on training, ...
The main drawbacks to off-shoring are the difficulties of exercising ... It also means UK jobs will be of higher quality, more skilled and in many cases ...
www.hrmguide.co.uk/strategic_hrm/cbi-globalisation.htm - 19kThe main drawbacks to off-shoring are the difficulties of exercising ... It also means UK jobs will be of higher quality, more skilled and in many cases ...
www.hrmguide.co.uk/strategic_hrm/cbi-globalisation.htm - 19k
The main drawbacks to off-shoring are the difficulties of exercising ... It also means UK jobs will be of higher quality, more skilled and in many cases ...
www.hrmguide.co.uk/strategic_hrm/cbi-globalisation.htm - 19k
In spite of all the job's drawbacks, most principals we talked to can't see themselves anyplace else! THE $$$ ISSUE! No discussion of the principal shortage ...
www.educationworld.com/a_admin/admin/admin197.shtml - 48k
Advantages and drawbacks to hourly fees and flat rates .... For all job and work-related news, or to search for a job and get information on training, ...
The main drawbacks to off-shoring are the difficulties of exercising ... It also means UK jobs will be of higher quality, more skilled and in many cases ...
www.hrmguide.co.uk/strategic_hrm/cbi-globalisation.htm - 19kThe main drawbacks to off-shoring are the difficulties of exercising ... It also means UK jobs will be of higher quality, more skilled and in many cases ...
www.hrmguide.co.uk/strategic_hrm/cbi-globalisation.htm - 19k
The main drawbacks to off-shoring are the difficulties of exercising ... It also means UK jobs will be of higher quality, more skilled and in many cases ...
www.hrmguide.co.uk/strategic_hrm/cbi-globalisation.htm - 19k
In spite of all the job's drawbacks, most principals we talked to can't see themselves anyplace else! THE $$$ ISSUE! No discussion of the principal shortage ...
www.educationworld.com/a_admin/admin/admin197.shtml - 48k
Discussion