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Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

la problématique

English translation:

argument/analysis/critique/discussion

Added to glossary by veratek
Jan 11, 2008 21:27
16 yrs ago
6 viewers *
French term

la problématique

French to English Other Education / Pedagogy essay-writing/discussion
Yes, I know, this has been discussed before notably in http://www.proz.com/kudoz/362299. However, the answers proposed there (and I'd invite potential answerers to have a look) really seem unsatisfactory to me, though the answer chosen has an explanation which is good.
Here's an example of a teacher's report on an oral commentary of a press article: "commentaire trop court, fondé sur une problématique un peu réductrice, à savoir, la position de l'auteur du texte"
This type of thing has been bugging me for years..
"(structured) argument/discussion"? "the points chosen for discussion"? Just a pure and simple "plan"? (though of course there is 'plan' for that in French) Thanks for any help on this existential problem...
Proposed translations (English)
3 critique/discussion
4 +3 perspective
4 +2 fit issue in
3 +3 limited view of the question ....
2 +2 argument
4 point of view
4 discourse
3 based on an issue slightly oversimplified
Change log

Jan 13, 2008 16:53: veratek Created KOG entry

Discussion

katsy (asker) Jan 14, 2008:
It's a deal, Bourth!
Bourth (X) Jan 14, 2008:
** I ** am a tea-and-biscuits (or beer or coffee ...) person, as a couple of people here can tell you, so expect me any time! What's more, you can't be awfully far away ... ;-)
MatthewLaSon Jan 13, 2008:
This is extremely complicated. It's hurt my brain, but doesn't every question hurt my brain these days? Sure, I'd love to come over for tea and biscuits to discuss this, Katsy, but the dollar better get a little stronger...lol.
katsy (asker) Jan 13, 2008:
Hi Matthew. I understand that you may have preferences - and I have concluded that the term used will depend, as ever, on context - is it analysis of a text, discussion of an essay question etc. As you say, all the answers are quite acceptable.. hence was sorry not to be able to share points, and hence I personally did not want to make a glossary entry. Thanks for your thoughts. Sorry you're not near enough for that 'tea and biscuits...'! But, whenever you come over to Europe......
MatthewLaSon Jan 13, 2008:
I prefer Najib's answer. The issue being tackled is too broad.The critic needs to narrow down things a bit. "Issue" clearly implies "argument/question at hand". I think all the answers are somewhat acceptable except for "perspective" and "fit-in issue."
katsy (asker) Jan 13, 2008:
oops, should re-read ... the "no original line etc." I have chosen for "pas de problématique"
katsy (asker) Jan 13, 2008:
I will decide before your remarks overflow the page. Many, many thanks to all. This is what I've decided. As you all say, 'problématique' can't be translated by just one thing. I personally therefore will not make a glossary entry. I've chosen 'critical analysis/discussion (of the issues)' for my original question, and, according to context, "no original line of thinking/perspective" or "no clearly formulated question addressed". I am sorry not to be able to share the points (but will offer tea and biscuits to any who find themselves in my area!!)- but have given them (a) for the original question, and (b) the most fruitful for me. I think Najib's final remark (above) is absolutely spot on. I have printed out this page for future reference! And I hope it will help others in the future. Once again, thanks a million and a very happy new year to all.
Najib Aloui Jan 13, 2008:
It's a "point of view" but not a "point of view " in a static sense, it's a point of view+ the "dynamic" of questioning...The French should be grateful to the German...
Najib Aloui Jan 13, 2008:
the fact that "problématique" doesn't allow for "automatic" translation into English doesn't mean, I think, that it fails to cover a recognizable concept. In any context , it means a set of coherent questions used to investigate a particular issue...It's
B D Finch Jan 13, 2008:
The idea of putting one's arguments within a problematic - even the need for a problematic seems OK. But, it doesn't fit the 1st context and the 2nd could also be translated as "no viewpoint". The student's theoretical standpoint should be made explicit
katsy (asker) Jan 12, 2008:
Hi vera-tech, and thanks again to all for your passionate interest! This doc. is 'formal' in the sense that it was given to the student after taking a mock oral exam (une colle). The target audience is the students themselves, yes, so that they can talk/be talked to about the demands of this exam without resorting to a mixture of the two languages. Also, and especially, for my own intellectual interest... I understand perfectly what the 'problématique' is (I hope) but have always been unable to find sth satisfactory in English. I'm realising I'm probably having to go with more than one idea - like mixing your and Bourth's ideas - 'critical analysis of the issues' for the original suggestion, and sth else for the 2nd - I'm still pondering on the excellent suggestions.
veratek Jan 12, 2008:
is the target audience for the translation the students themselves or is this a text about teaching? or does it appear on a formal course evaluation document?
rkillings Jan 12, 2008:
Blame the opacity of this existential problem on the Germans. Le Grand Robert dates the French noun in question to 1951 (!) and suggests that it may have been borrowed from 'Problematik'.
katsy (asker) Jan 11, 2008:
Thanks for the input so far... now I'm going to complicate matters a little - what about when the same teacher puts as a criticism in the same context (but for another student, obviously): "pas de problématique"??

Proposed translations

2 hrs
Selected

critique/discussion

"critique" this is the word I always heard in grad school, especially for articles, but not paired with "reductionist" - to pair with reductionist I would use either argument (the classic combination ) or in second place, analysis.

Texts and articles can also be reviewed. And you can always add "critical" - again another classic adjective from when I was in school: critical argument, critical review, critical discussion.


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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Of all the most useful suggestions, I think 'critical' is the most fruitful. Thank you vera-tech"
+2
59 mins

fit issue in

I agree "issue" by itself is wrong here since this is the other meaning of "problématique" (the questions put to resolve an issue). Now, the questions one seeks to answer are necessarily the result of an analysis, an interpretation ...

So I would say "based on too restricted/simplified an analysis/interpretation/breakdown of the issues involved/at hand".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2008-01-12 00:25:58 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

As for "pas de problématique", if "pas de problème" is "no problème" then it has to be "no problème-attic", no?

Obviously I would say "no/insufficient analysis/ interpretation / breakdown - exposition, even - of the issues involved/at hand"

Gore’s film is basically an exposition of the issue and a fervent plea for action. Crichton’s book debunks the issue and claims it is just a way to keep ...
physicaplus.org.il/zope/home/en/1185176174/cult_judy_en/

Though not original in his assessment of Hume's failure, Earman's exposition of the issue is the most comprehensive and well ARTICULATED that I have ...
www.amazon.com/review/R1N7YJE6X4WDOU

Possibly also "articulation of the issue" ...

the relevance of the issue in public health; clarity of the definition and exposition of the issue; appropriateness of methodology for analyzing the issue ...
publichealth.huji.ac.il/upload/ResearchForumOverview.doc

"The 'minor premise, major premise, conclusion' formula permits a much more understandable exposition of the issue and, as a bonus, necessarily requires ...
raymondpward.typepad.com/rainman2/2004/08/hows_the_whethe.html

Your letter need not be a scholarly exposition of the issue—a short paragraph will do.] [What do you want your representative to do? ...
www.citizenadvocacycenter.org/lsnprintYoung Citizens and Me...

The current controversy, with a factual and well argued exposition of the issue by Left parties, lays bare to what extent these bizarre efforts at ...
www.cpim.org/pd/2006/0108/01082005_nilotpal.htm

However, "exposition of the issue" could also be the bit that is supposed to come AFTER the "problématique".
Note from asker:
Now "analysis" I like - the idea of discussing various sides of an issue, which is what 'problématique' is about....
Peer comment(s):
agree Jim Tucker (X) : "issue" , ouais, bodacieux et copacétique
2 hrs
We know which side of the Pond YOU are on!
agree veratek : with analysis
12 hrs
Something went wrong...
+3
3 hrs

perspective

une problématique un peu réductrice (à savoir, la position de l'auteur du texte) --> a somewhat limited perspective

and for the 'question subsidiaire':
pas de problématique --> lacking perspective
Peer comment(s):
agree Bourth (X) : I like it. Note no mention of episcopal function or stage performers.
49 mins
agree Assimina Vavoula
6 hrs
agree Victoria Porter-Burns :
9 hrs
neutral veratek : I think argument is more to the point than perspective, and limited and reductionist are not the same either, reductionist is a specific type of limitation
10 hrs
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+2
1 hr

argument

???

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2008-01-11 22:37:12 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Harrap's = "set of problems"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2008-01-11 22:48:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

thesis

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2008-01-11 22:49:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

pas de problematique = "no underlying thesis/postulate"??

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2008-01-12 09:19:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

words get on your nerves??
Note from asker:
Well yes, this(thesis/postulate) is, of course, really what it means - but isn't it a bit pompous for a 20-year-old student's oral commentary? or even a 'lycée' student's essay for that matter? (I suppose this is why the word gets on my nerves!)
Words? I love them, or I wouldn't be here! But this one has so far escaped translation (for me), and with all this help, I see my nerves are going to calm down :-)
Peer comment(s):
agree veratek : with argument, specially if it is to be paired with reductionist - discard thesis and postulate, not the case here
12 hrs
agree islander1974 : This context seems to be argument. No, I don't think it's pompous. It's looking at the author's frame of reference and it doesn't matter if he's only 20...
13 hrs
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18 hrs

point of view

I think that you certainly would not use a "problematic" in this context. The teacher is criticising the student for not being able to stand aside from the author's point of view in commenting upon the text and, thus, not being able to fully understand and analyse or criticise it.

"For example, The Go-Between is told from the limited **point of view** of Leo .... is the reflection of the writer's attitude (especially towards his readers), ..."
www.thorns.info/theory/literary_terms.html - 28k

"You the Writer ... much shorter and less systematic and formal than a dissertation or thesis and dealing with its subject from a limited **point of view**’. ..."
www.rlf.org.uk/fellowshipscheme/writing/whatisanessay/basic...

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Note added at 18 hrs (2008-01-12 15:42:42 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I do think that this is specific to the original example you give. I would certainly use other words to translate "problematique" in other contexts.
Note from asker:
Precisely, it's a very specific use I'm asking about... your references are very relevant :-)
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+3
11 hrs

limited view of the question ....

"pas de problématique" = "no original question addressed"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2008-01-12 09:13:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

or "no clearly formulated question adressed"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 hrs (2008-01-12 17:54:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

the question used (to investigate the text) lacks broadness; it focuses on ...
Peer comment(s):
agree suezen
35 mins
Bonjour, Suezen. Merci.
agree veratek : I don't like the main suggestion, but I certainly agree with the suggestions for "pas de problematique"
2 hrs
Bonjour. Thank you, Vera. I don't like it much either since the text and the questions addressed to the text are not the same thing ...
agree MatthewLaSon : "issue at hand is presented in a slightly oversimplified manner" That's what you are saying. I completely agree with your understanding, which was what I saying in my answer all along.
1 day 13 hrs
Thank you Matthew!
Something went wrong...
2 mins

discourse

in this context

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 22 hrs (2008-01-12 19:53:56 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

suggestions for the second occurrence: clear line of thinking / stance
Peer comment(s):
neutral veratek : it's correct, but I wouldn't think it's the most clear
13 hrs
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5 hrs

based on an issue slightly oversimplified

Hello,

In essay writing, "la problématique" would be the issue, imvho. Here, the critic is saying that issue at hand has been presented a bit simplistically. The writer is being accused of being "simplism" of the issue at hand.

simplism: The tendency to oversimplify an issue or a problem by ignoring complexities or complications.

I hope this helps.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2008-01-12 03:18:47 GMT)
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I remember seeing this term a long time when I wrote an essay in French. It had to do with the "presentation of the issue" to be discussed.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days1 hr (2008-01-13 23:05:35 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

The issue is that "question/argument". Yes, it's a bit broad. That's reall it.

issue = question/argument
Something went wrong...
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