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RESPONSABILIDAD CULPABILÍSTICA
el centro acredita como Diplomado
Jun 29, 2014 18:57
9 yrs ago
2 viewers *
Spanish term

aspa de rechazo

Spanish to English Social Sciences Social Science, Sociology, Ethics, etc.
from an academic book on the recent/current socioeconomic situation in Spain (also written in Peninsular Spanish), referring to all the public speeches in plazas around about May 2011 and the people's reception of them. Target audience is English-speaking academics interested in this topic.

full sentence: Las aspas de rechazo se levantaban enseguida contra los discursos más automáticos, más codificados, menos afectados por la situación.

So what I'm wondering is if this is something metaphorical (e.g., raise their voices in rejection), or is there some kind of sign or banner or some other physical object (the "aspa") that people would hold up at rallies when they heard something they didn't like. If the latter, I'd really like a good word for it: somehow, "cross of rejection" simplemente no me suena. But is that actually it?
Proposed translations (English)
5 Not a metaphor: an actual sign made by crossing both forearms
3 +2 the signs of rejection
3 +1 the saltires of rejection
3 the wind filled the sails of rejection
3 lances of rejection
3 turned a deaf ear

Discussion

Linda Grabner (asker) Jul 1, 2014:
@ Alicia Gracias por el enlace, Alicia! Ayuda tanto mas que una explicacion -- una imagen de veras vale 1000 palabras!
Alicia Pallas Jun 30, 2014:
The actual "aspa" sign used Hello again! Since the question is closed and I cannot update my answer, I'm posting a discussion entry to leave this page showing the most common gestures or signs used in the 15M meetings, in which you can clearly see the "aspa" of disagreement:

http://enelmudic.blogspot.com.es/2011/10/proyecto1.html
Charles Davis Jun 30, 2014:
Like Helena, I have tried this expression on my in-house consultant (peninsular Spanish native speaker and language teacher with very good knowledge of the subject matter) and was met with a blank look: no idea what the writer could have meant. I think it's probably insoluble, short of locating the author and asking him or her.
Charles Davis Jun 30, 2014:
@ Donal Sorry if I misunderstood you. Your quotation from the www.casareal.es site, added to the fact that the aspa is in fact Spanish monarchist symbol (albeit rather an obscure one), led me to think that's what you were suggesting.
neilmac Jun 29, 2014:
Perhaps they mean "asta? http://lema.rae.es/drae/?val=asta
Muriel Vasconcellos Jun 29, 2014:
Not really a protest at all Considering the text that follows, I think the rejection is more from bored disgust than militant objection. As I read it, the public is tired of speeches that mouth platitudes and sugar-coat the real situation. IMHO, it's more important to find a "dynamic equivalent" (a la Eugene Nida) than to focus on the meaning of "aspas".
DLyons Jun 29, 2014:
The article is online - and there I leave it. I've just skimmed it and made some comments (which do not include 15-M protesters waving Spanish monarchist symbols).
lorenab23 Jun 29, 2014:
Please forgive my very simple take on this, but isn't aspas just a metaphor for arms? Like saying that people raised their arms in protest?
Charles Davis Jun 29, 2014:
Sorry, but the idea of the 15-M protesters waving Spanish monarchist symbols in the current climate is quite unrealistic. And anyway, although the aspa may be such a symbol in theory, it's never used as such in practice. Monarchists just wave the Spanish flag, if they wave anything. People in the 15-M movement, on the other hand, don't go in for flags, except perhaps the Spanish republican flag (we have a couple of those at home and often carry them in demonstrations).
Charles Davis Jun 29, 2014:
The aspa (the cross of Burgundy or St Andrew's cross) is completely absent from current Spanish political symbolism. Yes, it was a Carlist symbol. But the Carlists, for practical purposes, have been extinct for some time. Its Francoist associations are very remote. And apart from the Carlist angle it's not, to my knowledge, a Basque nationalist symbol. In any case, this is talking about the 15-M movement, which has nothing to do with any of those groups: indeed, it could hardly be more remote from them.

If "aspa" meant a banner or flag, then levantar + aspa might be a natural collocation. But as far as I can see there's no reason at all to think that it does mean that here. It doesn't normally. It only could as a metonym: a banner bearing an aspa. But as I say, this is incongruous.
DLyons Jun 29, 2014:
Levantar+aspa is the natural colocation (rather than windmills).

The aspa is associated with Carlists, the Franco regime and Basque nationalism (and likely others). The article may well suggest which to the asker - I haven't read it. In part at least it's about the protest movement Moviemiento 15-M http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Movimiento_15-M

"... ayudando a sustituir el alzamiento de un pesado objeto metálico por la representación de éste bordada sobre un paño y unida a un asta, cuyo resultado es un objeto ligero, fácilmente transportable y visible sobre las cabezas de los combatientes." http://www.casareal.es/VA/corona/Paginas/simbolos.aspx
Charles Davis Jun 29, 2014:
@ Donal Do you think "raising a flag" is a natural metaphor for expressing rejection? I don't. And what are these "strong associations" of "aspa" with Spanish political groupings?

I'm quite prepared to believe that the author had a reason for using this striking phrase. If we knew what he/she meant by it, we could have a go at finding an equivalent. But I don't think we do. The proposals already on the table sound strange to me. I doubt this has anything to do with flags, crosses or sails.
DLyons Jun 29, 2014:
@Charles "Levantar (la bandera)" ties in with "aspa", which has strong associations with Spanish political groupings. This seems to me the natural metaphor.

Of course, one can go for a more general translation, but there's a cost. The author has coined a striking phrase for a purpose.
Charles Davis Jun 29, 2014:
But I think that if I had to do this, given the degree of doubt about the exact sense of the metaphor (and it must be metaphorical, surely), I'd be tempted to reduce it to something like "more automatic speeches were met with signs of rejection" or perhaps better "were poorly received" or "were given a (more) hostile reception": something fairly general like that.
Charles Davis Jun 29, 2014:
I think it might be referring to the expression "hacer aspas", which can mean to wave your arms around (the metaphor comes from a resemblance to a windmill, I think). So when people heard speeches not to their liking they waved their arms as a sign of rejection, maybe?

The "levantaban", in this interpretation, would be people raising their arms prior to waving them as a sign of disagreement and rejection (maybe).
philgoddard Jun 29, 2014:
"Raised hackles" would get my vote, Joss. "Grated" is another possibility.
Helena Chavarria Jun 29, 2014:
@Linda I've just this moment asked a Spanish native (63 years old) and he has confirmed that it is not a set phrase. It was the first time he had heard it!
Linda Grabner (asker) Jun 29, 2014:
So would you say, then, Helena, that this is not a "modismo"/set phrase for which I should try to find something similar in English? I was rather thinking along the same lines as DLyon, with waving flags of rejection, but I wanted to make sure first that there wasn't some standard interpretation I was overlooking.
Joss Heywood Jun 29, 2014:
I think this is metaphorical. I would try to restructure the sentence to be able to say that the speeches "raised hackles".
DLyons Jun 29, 2014:
There's a historical context for "aspa" see e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_of_Burgundy

Maybe waving the flags of rejection/denial/rebellion?
Helena Chavarria Jun 29, 2014:
You probably already know but 'aspa' is also a blade on a fan, ventilator, windmill, propeller, etc. 'Aspas de rechazo' is used metaphorically.

Proposed translations

1 day 1 hr
Selected

Not a metaphor: an actual sign made by crossing both forearms

Since I attended several of the 11M meetings, I think I can shed some light on the matter of the "aspa".

The dynamics of popular meetings of the 11M movement aimed at ensuring a widespread participation of the audience. Anyone who had something to say was welcome to do so, in a "speaker's corner" kind of fashion. In order to ensure that everyone was heard, a system of signs or gestures was developed to express agreement or dissent silently and without hindering verbal communication: instead of clapping, agreement was expressed by raising both hands in the air and twisting them (like the deaf people's applause). You can see a few people "clapping silently" like that (along with some "loud clapping" as well) around the 2:12 mark of this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZHx2jwhQgA

Disagreement, on the other hand, was expressed by raising both forearms crossed, forming an "aspa". I couldn't find any online video example of this (it seems that videos where people disagreed did not become as popular), but I have no doubt that the "aspa del rechazo" in your text refers to this disagreement sign.

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Note added at 1 día1 hora (2014-06-30 20:08:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry, I meant 15M instead of 11M!
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks, from the context I thought it must be some kind of visual something, whether a gesture or a flag. This was very helpful!"
+1
37 mins

the saltires of rejection

Topical with a Scottish/U.K. audience.
Peer comment(s):
agree neilmac : :-)
4 hrs
Thanks Neilmac. It's literal.
Something went wrong...
57 mins

the wind filled the sails of rejection

Another option. I'm thinking of the sails on a windmill...
Something went wrong...
+2
3 hrs

the signs of rejection

...were immediately apparent/were palpable.

I think this is the meaning - that people almost instinctively rejected the same old answers...
Peer comment(s):
agree Charles Davis : Since we really can't tell what "aspa" is getting at, I'd be inclined to do something like this.
1 hr
Many thanks Charles! ;-)
agree cintynaomi (X)
7 hrs
Many thanks! ;-)
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5 hrs

lances of rejection

I reckon they might mean "asta"... and the image of aising the lances sounds apt: "Arma ofensiva de los antiguos romanos, compuesta de hierro, astil y regatón, que se empleaba como lanza, y también como dardo, para arrojarla con la mano contra el enemigo"

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Note added at 5 hrs (2014-06-30 00:05:50 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Las aspas de rechazo se levantaban enseguida -> "Lances of repudiation/rejection were immediately raised..."

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2014-06-30 00:06:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lance
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21 hrs

turned a deaf ear

I think you're basically looking for a type of English metaphor or idiom indicating that they had no use for those types of empty speeches and quickly stopped listening. Turned a blind eye... Gave the cold shoulder to... I don't think you want to write anything about the fan blades of rejection. Lol. Like Helena said, it's metaphor. Regardless of how academically brilliant the audience might be, they still need it to make sense.
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