Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

molécules à élimination urinaire

English translation:

drugs that eliminate predominantly non-resistant bacteria in the urine

Added to glossary by joanna menda
Jan 8, 2023 14:47
1 yr ago
31 viewers *
French term

molécules à élimination urinaire

French to English Medical Medical (general) lab results
Hi
I am having problems with the phrase "molécules à élimination urinaire"
The whole sentence is "En cas d'infection urinaire non compliquée, les molécules à élimination urinaire prédominante catégorisée non résistante peuvent être utilisées à posologie standard."

Thanks

Joanna

Discussion

joanna menda (asker) Jan 11, 2023:
Thanks everyone for all your help. I finally went with Sue's solution and highlighted the possible typo to the PM.
José Julián Díaz Jan 10, 2023:
@Sue Davis. Wait, wait! I endorse neither one of the factors representing the root cause of this misfortunate comprehension case. I have just left my final comment on this absurd misunderstanding.
Sue Davis Jan 10, 2023:
in fact "antimicrobial resistance" is short for resistance to antimicrobial drugs
José Julián Díaz Jan 10, 2023:
@Sue Davis. En fait, votre raisonnement à propos de la grammaire est substantiel, néanmoins, la phrase sur ProZ a une erreur.


Antibiogramme: la catégorie Intermédiaire disparaît - Biolyss
https://biolyss.fr › Actualités

Traducir esta página
6 dic 2022 — Le CASFM précise enfin qu'en cas de cystite non compliquée, les molécules (à élimination urinaire prédominante) catégorisées non résistantes ...
José Julián Díaz Jan 10, 2023:
Dear @Sue Davis, thank you very much for your kind remark. However, I’ve got to let you know that my answer is right, and you are wrong. Don’t misunderstand me, please. Of course, I do understand your point, but the fact of the matter is that, in this specific case, the resistance is not in association with bacteria but the other way around, i.e., the reference is to the “antimicrobial resistance” of a drug substance. Hey, read these articles. I should have explained at first this awkward use of the term “resistant”.


« En pratique, la catégorie “intermédiaire” était devenue une catégorie “ignorée”, car généralement interprétée par les cliniciens comme signifiant que l’antibiotique serait résistant… »

Page 6

https://www.edimark.fr/Front/frontpost/getfiles/31726.pdf


2.5. Identification of Resistance-Associated Genes
The potential mechanisms underlying the antimicrobial resistance of methicillin, erythromycin, penicillin, and aminoglycosides were detected by amplifying the mecA, erm(A), erm(B), erm(C), blaZ, and aac-aphD genes, respectively.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6843140/

Sue Davis Jan 9, 2023:
@pennylyd I take your point it's just also that " catégorisée non résistante" qualifies "élimination" which is why I thought that élimination referred to elimination of bacteria. Maybe the client should be asked for clarification.
pennylyd Jan 9, 2023:
@sue i.e. rather than being eliminated by the liver (in the bile) - in which case concentrations in the urinary tract would not be so high so you'd need higher dosages to overcome the affect of liver metabolism - if most of the drug passes into the urine in active form you don't need to increase the dose
José Julián Díaz Jan 9, 2023:
@joanna menda. Hi, there! How is this sentence related to your other question, I mean "délai pos aérobie"?
pennylyd Jan 9, 2023:
@José yes, that's my understanding of the entire sentence - the drugs are classified as non-resistant (or sensitive) though, in fact, of course, it's actually the bacteria which are resistant (or not) to the drugs _ the French really is a little unclear unless you look at it in a table (i.e. in context) .
José Julián Díaz Jan 9, 2023:
In case of an uncomplicated urinary tract infection, molecules predominantly excreted in urine categorized as non-resistant can be used at standard dosage.
pennylyd Jan 9, 2023:
see the Compte-rendu/serveur de résultats https://www.edimark.fr/Front/frontpost/getfiles/31726.pdf. This table categorises antibiotics (molécules) as 'sensible a dose standard (i.e. non-résistant)/ résistant/ non categorisé'
Sue Davis Jan 9, 2023:
@pennylyd. I am not sure what you mean by drugs with predominantly urinary excretion. I agree the French is not very clear.
Sue Davis Jan 8, 2023:
Also I find that French often uses abbreviated terms such as 'non-resistant elimination" that take an element as read, in this case bacteria. In fact resistant /non-resistant can surely only refer to bacteria.
Sue Davis Jan 8, 2023:
Hi Phil, while "non résistante" is not included in the question, I think it is essential to the understanding of the terms that are, I think it clearly refers to the elimination of non-resistant bacteriia. As I indicated elimination has to make sense in the context of the terms that qualify it.

Proposed translations

+2
2 hrs
Selected

drugs that eliminate predominantly non-resistant bacteria in the urine

I think this refers to treatment of a urinary tract infection. https://www.santepubliquefrance.fr/maladies-et-traumatismes/...
La résistance aux antibiotiques rend inefficace un ou plusieurs antibiotique(s) contre une infection bactérienne. Ce phénomène peut conduire à la difficulté, voir l’impossibilité de traiter certaines infections.

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Note added at 2 hrs (2023-01-08 17:00:15 GMT)
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https://www.antibioticresearch.org.uk/patient-support/specif...
Antibiotic-resistant urinary tract infections are a type of infection that do not respond to most – or any – of the most common treatments. Find out more about antibiotic-resistant urinary tract infections and the care patients will receive.

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Note added at 2 hrs (2023-01-08 17:04:47 GMT)
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IU = infection urinaire https://www.hug.ch/sites/hde/files/structures/medecine_de_pr...
INFECTIONS URINAIRES
L’IU peut récidiver après un traitement. La rechute indique un échec d’élimination des
bactéries et est, de plus en plus fréquemment l’indice d’une résistance aux antibiotiques, ou d’une anomalie anatomique au niveau des reins ou de la vessie, de la présence de calculs surinfectés, ou d’une prostatite chronique.

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Note added at 2 hrs (2023-01-08 17:05:44 GMT)
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So here I think "élimination" refers to the elimination of bacteria, not excretion of urine
Peer comment(s):

agree writeaway
1 hr
Thanks writeaway!
agree Rachel Fell
3 hrs
Thanks Rachel
agree Adrian MM.
4 hrs
Thanks Adrian!
disagree pennylyd : No - I believe it is more that drugs with predominantly urinary excretion can be used at normal dosages against bacteria classified as non-resistant - the French is not really very clear but it is clear this is what is meant if you look at antibiogram tab
15 hrs
agree liz askew
23 hrs
Thanks Liz!
disagree José Julián Díaz : Dear @Sue, Davis, thank you for the kind remark. However, I’ve got to let you know that my answer is correct, and you are wrong. Read my explanation in the Discussion entries. Looking forward to your comments!
1 day 19 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks Sue"
57 mins

Medication eliminated by urine

I would write something like the antibiotics used for cystitis. That is what I took trom this link:

"Deux types de molécules à élimination urinaire prolongée et administrables par voie orale sont indiqués pour avoir démontré une efficacité immédiate et retardée identique en traitement court et en traitement long : le cotrimoxazole et les fluoroquinolones."
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1 hr

drug molecules for (enhancing) elimination by the urinary tract

High confidence because although I'm not a specialist in the field, my conclusions make an awful lot of sense to me ;-)

I get the impression this is serious medical shorthand for:

les molécules à élimination prédominante par voie urinaire catégorisée non résistante peuvent être utilisées à posologie standard

Drug molecules enhancing predominant elimination by urinary tract classified non-resistant, can be used at standard dosage.

Since there are two possible channels for elimination, urinary tract and biliary tract, one of them can be predominant:

"Élimination :
Sortie d'un médicament [and presumably infectious material] de l'organisme, soit sous forme inchangée, soit suite à des réactions de biotransformation (voir ce terme) sous forme de métabolites. Cette élimination peut se faire notamment par excrétion rénale ou biliaire. LA VOIE D'ÉLIMINATION PRÉDOMINANTE dépend du médicament."

In theory the urinary tract is resistant to bacterial infection,
"Les VOIES URINAIRES qui relient les reins au méat urétral sont normalement stériles et RÉSISTANTES À LA COLONISATION BACTÉRIENNE malgré une contamination fréquente de l'extrémité distale de l'urètre par les bactéries intestinales"
but presumably it can be non-resistant and therefore require treatment using the drug molecules prescribed.

The following states that there is—or, ideally, should be— élimination urinaire prédominante in the case of infections urinaires, but that in this case at least the dosage should be normal, not high:
" dans le cadre des INFECTIONS URINAIRES (cystites) non compliquées, les antibiotiques catégorisés « I - Sensible à forte dose » à ÉLIMINATION URINAIRE PRÉDOMINANTE (donc FORTEMENT CONCENTRÉS AU SEIN DU SITE INFECTIEUX) peuvent être utilisés À DOSE STANDARD ET NON À FORTE DOSe."
https://www.synlab.fr/votre-sante/maladies-infectieuses/comp...

The molécules à élimination urinaire are an oral medication in this case:
"Deux types de MOLÉCULES À ÉLIMINATION URINAIRE prolongée et administrables PAR VOIE ORALE sont indiqués pour avoir démontré une efficacité immédiate et retardée identique en TRAITEMENT court et en traitement long : le cotrimoxazole et les fluoroquinolones. Certes, une réduction de la SENSIBILITÉ DES ENTÉROBACTÉRIES au cotrimoxazole a été récemment observée ; toutefois, à l'heure actuelle, le pourcentage de souches résistantes impliquées dans l'infection urinaire basse ne paraît pas avoir atteint un niveau suffisant pour que cet antibiotique soit rejeté de cette indication alors qu'il est le moins coûteux"
http://coproweb.free.fr/pagbac/infectio/infuri.htm

HomeoDrain, from LG Homeo, is a homeopathic medicine traditionally used to FACILITATE URINARY ELIMINATION functions
https://armran.com/product/homeodrain-urodren-urinary-elimin...

• cherry stalk extract, known to FACILITATE URINARY ELIMINATION functions,
https://www.soin-et-nature.com/en/11695-cysti-plex-7-health-...

" 2-induced diuresis was enhanced after pretreatment with L-NAME, and its ability to ENHANCE URINARY ELIMINATION was not prevented in the presence of either indomethacin or atropine"
https://www.thieme-connect.com/products/ejournals/pdf/10.105...

Peer comment(s):

neutral philgoddard : Sorry, but 'enhancing predominant elimination by urinary tract classified non-resistant' is nonsense.
46 mins
I was trying to keep it short. Just add the missing words.
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26 mins

molecules eliminated in the urine

I think your question should include 'prédominante', which I would translate as 'primarily'.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 42 mins (2023-01-08 15:29:47 GMT)
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I think it should read "catégorisées non résistantes".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2023-01-08 17:48:25 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I think there's something wrong with the French, but I stick by my answer.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2023-01-08 17:51:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Maybe it should read "pour les bactéries catégorisées non résistantes".
Peer comment(s):

disagree Bourth : Molécules à élimination urinaire are part of a medication for treating urinary problems.
3 mins
I know! They're probably antibiotics.
agree pennylyd : yes, molecules/drugs (predominantly) eliminated in the urine as they are thus concentrated at the site of action so do not require a higher than usual dose -
1 hr
Exactly. Thank you.
agree Drmanu49 : The way I understand it.
2 hrs
disagree Sue Davis : how then would you account for the qualification of "élimination" as "non-résistante"?
2 hrs
I don't know, but that's not part of the question. It's usually written as "catégorisées non résistantes", so the use of the singular may be a grammatical error, or there may be a word missing. 'Non-resistant elimination" makes no sense.
Something went wrong...
-1
1 hr

molecules (predominantly) excreted in urine

molecules predominantly excreted in urine
In case of an uncomplicated urinary tract infection, molecules predominantly excreted in urine categorized as non-resistant can be used at standard dosage.

The renal excretion of drugs typically decreases with age, and the renal clearance of an individual at the age of 80 is considered to be approximately half of what it was at the age of 30. As a result, drugs that are predominantly excreted by the kidneys may require to be administered at half the dose for elderly patients, to reduce the risk of adverse effects.
https://www.news-medical.net/health/Drug-Excretion-Eliminati...

Most drugs, particularly water-soluble drugs and their metabolites, are eliminated largely by the kidneys in urine.
https://www.msdmanuals.com/home/drugs/administration-and-kin...


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Note added at 2 days 8 hrs (2023-01-10 23:22:18 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

@Sue Davis. Wait, wait! I endorse neither one of the factors representing the root cause of this misfortunate comprehension case.
Read again, please!

Of course, I do understand your point, but the fact of the matter is that, in this specific case, the resistance is not in association with bacteria but the other way around, i.e., the reference is to the “antimicrobial resistance” of a drug substance.

Of course, *** I do understand your point, but *** *** in this specific case, the resistance is not in association with bacteria but the other way around *** *** the reference is to the “antimicrobial resistance” *** of a drug substance.

I must insist that I used quotation marks for antimicrobial resistance. Furthermore, in reply to your direct allusion, it is not my reasoning.

Simply put, this is the idea conveyed by the original phrasing which happens to be the reason why, eventually, the intermediate category went “ignored”, since it was generally understood by the medical practitioners as though it was the drug that would become resistant…

I have just written this further clarification based on the citation I included in my first intervention.

« En pratique, la catégorie “intermédiaire” était devenue une catégorie “ignorée”, car généralement interprétée par les cliniciens comme signifiant que l’antibiotique serait résistant… »

So, now, I hope that upon an understanding of the fact that I am not endorsing either the phrasing or the meaning, the two underlying factors in the root cause, you might be able to let behind your scientific insight, to merely focus on the “true and accurate translation” of a misleading sentence, which, per se, has brought about the elimination of the aforementioned category.

Dites, madame, à quoi bon se disputer à propos d’un concept qu’on sait qui est tout à fait évident pour tous les deux ?

La racine de cette infructueuse catégorisation, telle qu’elle s’est révélée, incroyablement, au sein même de la communauté médicale, n’est rien d’autre que la confusion qui a lieu à cause de l’accord du participe passé employé comme un adjectif (« les molécules catégorisées non résistantes »), où l’accord se fait précisément par rapport aux « molécules », Voilà ! Dissection finie…

Alors, madame, j’espère bien que maintenant, en vous rapportant exclusivement à la syntaxe, sans réfléchir à la sémantique, vous serez en mesure de concevoir la nature extraordinaire de ce galimatias. N’est-ce pas bizarre ?

Celle-ci est la phrase telle qu’elle apparait sur l’internet :

... enfin qu'en cas de cystite … non compliquée, les molécules (à élimination urinaire prédominante) catégorisées non résistantes ...

https://www.genbio.fr/antibiogramme-nouveautes-2021/


Et celle-ci est la traduction que moi je propose.

In case of an uncomplicated (urinary tract infection), molecules predominantly excreted in urine categorized as non-resistant...

Well, isn’t it a true and accurate translation?

En fin, personne ne peut nier que l’on a besoin d’une exposée intellectuellement dissociée comme celle que je viens de partager pour pouvoir mettre sur la table la raison fortuite de l’invraisemblable ! Au fur et à mesure que l’on s’éloigne de la pensée dite scientifique, il devient fantastiquement naturel de se plonger à l’aise dans l’idée que, oui, effectivement ce sont les substances actives qui mutent parce que c’est la syntaxe correcte qui laisse, même les cliniciens, avec nulle considération postérieure.


- Alors, comment est-ce que l’on appelle la femelle du hibou ?
- Chouette !
- Et bien, c’est chouette, n’est-ce pas ?
Peer comment(s):

neutral philgoddard : This is basically the same as my answer.
25 mins
@philgoddard, "Basically" it is, indeed. The difference is that I do offer references and also that I am completely sure.
disagree Sue Davis : according to your reasoning the drugs in question would be ineffective against bacteria
2 days 1 hr
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Reference comments

2 hrs
Reference:

Antibiogramme: la catégorie Intermédiaire disparaît

Selon les recommandations du Comité de l’Antibiogramme de la Société Française de Microbiologie (CASFM), l’ancienne catégorie Intermédiaire n’existe plus.
Les bactéries sont dorénavant catégorisées en:
– résistantes
– sensibles (à dose standard)
– sensibles à forte posologie, pour lesquelles la probabilité de succès thérapeutique est élevée lorsque l’exposition à l’antibiotique est augmentée.

L’exposition est augmentée soit en augmentant la dose, soit si l’antibiotique est fortement concentré au site infectieux.
Peer comments on this reference comment:

agree philgoddard
24 mins
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