Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

cotillon

English translation:

petticoat

Added to glossary by Yvonne Gallagher
Mar 28 12:51
1 mo ago
36 viewers *
French term

cotillion

French to English Art/Literary Textiles / Clothing / Fashion
Hi everyone,

Does cotillion mean petticoat?

Le taffetas se souleva, dévoilant les motifs de la frise à la lisière du cotillon. Il fallait s’approcher pour distinguer la finesse de la broderie.

I currently have:
The taffeta lifted, revealing the frieze pattern at the edge of the petticoat. You had to get close to see the intricate embroidery.

Thank you!
Change log

Mar 30, 2024 11:10: Yvonne Gallagher Created KOG entry

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (2): Barbara Carrara, Carol Gullidge

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Discussion

@Saliha the heading is easily corrected when the question is closed
Saliha18 (asker) Mar 28:
Thank you everyone for being so helpful! I'm sorry about the typo. I'm not sure how to correct the headword for the entry. Any guidance?
Saliha18 (asker) Mar 28:
Thank you everyone for being so helpful! I'm sorry about the typo. I'm not sure how to correct the headword for the entry. Any guidance?
petticoat or underskirt I think we need to look at the English. I feel "petticoat" fits the style better here, from the bit I've read of this fantasy.
"underskirt" is rather modern to my ears
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petticoat
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cotillon
Barbara Carrara Mar 28:
Saliha Please fix term in title, as suggested by Philippa in her Agree comment below.
Thanks.

Proposed translations

+5
11 mins
Selected

petticoat

it makes sense in the context as in the dance by that name women lift their skirts to show their ankles 9and petticoats)

https://dictionary.reverso.net/french-english/cotillon

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Note added at 1 day 22 hrs (2024-03-30 11:09:35 GMT) Post-grading
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Glad to have helped.

This is far from being the garment of "paysannes" Already put these in Dbox but will put here as well

petticoat or underskirt3:38pm 28 Mar Click here to delete your post

I feel "petticoat" fits the style better here, from the bit I've read of this fantasy.
"underskirt" is rather modern to my ears
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petticoat
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cotillon

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Note added at 1 day 22 hrs (2024-03-30 11:11:55 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

note that I've removed the "i" for the glossary

"cotillon" is the spelling (though the dance can be spelled with and without the "i")
Peer comment(s):

agree Roland Johansson
12 mins
Many thanks:-)
agree Philippa Smith : Yup (without the 'i'), it's in Larousse for example, https://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais-anglais/cotil...
14 mins
Many thanks:-)// and yes, w/o the "i"//in Wikipedia archaic: petticoat https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cotillon
agree Barbara Carrara
40 mins
Many thanks:-)
agree Anastasia Kalantzi
54 mins
Many thanks:-)
agree Emmanuella
5 hrs
Merci:-)
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you!"
25 mins

petticoat

t
Something went wrong...
+3
1 hr

underskirt

If CNRTL is to be believed
https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/cotillon#:~:text=Culotte ou ...

it's not so much a petticoat, even it is worn beneath another skirt, Cotte, jupe de dessous , as a particular style of skirt, espèce de jupes plissées derrière et sur les côtés.

Lexis defines cotillon (note the spelling) as jupon porté autrefois par les femmes du peuple, and jupon as Pièce de lingerie, maintenue à la taille par une ceinture ou un caoutchouc, qui soutient l'ampleur de la jupe, indicating the original concept (1319) as tunique à manches.

For my old Larousse, it's Jupe de dessous des paysannes.

Bref, it's not easy to know what we're talking about.

Cotte above and the root of cotillon will indeed have given us 'petticoat', and, my ignorance showing, as a petticoat, I have learnt that a petticoat is more than just the frilly bits that, when I was a boy, got girls into a tizz if it was pointed out to them that it was showing, but also:
- A small coat worn by men beneath the doublet
- A garment [unspecified] worn by women, girls and young children, further specified as
a. A skirt as distinct from a bodice, worn either externally or beneath the gown or frock
b. An underskirt
c. The skirt of a woman's riding habit
d. The rudimentary garment worn by women among primitive or uncivilized peoples [cache-sexe?]

Alain Rey's historical dict. gives its derivation from cotte, i.e. an upper-body garment, and mentions that a variant, cotteron was a petite jupe courte et étroite, especially the cotillon de laine porté par les paysannes de la Flandre. Further, it is said Seul le dérivé COTILLON est encore vivant pour n'être pas resté strictement un terme d'habillement : traditionnellement, il désigne une jupe de dessous portée par les femmes du peuple (encore dans les parlers méridionaux …"

On the Ouèbbhe we find an additional complication: Le cotillon est une sorte de jupon apparu au XVIIe siècle. C’est plus précisément une jupe de dessous, qui se porte au-dessus d’un jupon (et en-dessous d’une jupe vous l’aurez compris). Le terme est surtout associé aux paysannes. Le cotillon est encore aujourd’hui une pièce indispensable du costume provençal.

Taffetas seems to suggest something rather more expensive than peasants might wear, but it is possible, these days at least, that the fabric is used for traditional dress, and if it is in a Provençal setting, it is possible that it is the skirt between the petticoat and the outer dress.

So the fuller context might play a part in the decision.

In uncertainty, I would plump for 'underskirt' (as distinct from a slip or petticoat).

Whatever it is, it should be made compulsory attire in these days of energy economy.



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Note added at 4 hrs (2024-03-28 17:37:51 GMT)
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Ah! The question now is whether the use of, first, jupon, then cotillon, is a matter of the 'elegant variation' [Fowler] the French are so fond of, or are they two different things. If a proponent of said elegant variation, and assuming 'petticoat' has been taken for jupon, 'underskirt' might indeed do the trick.

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Note added at 4 hrs (2024-03-28 17:38:30 GMT)
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Note from asker:
Wow, thank you for such an in-depth response!
Peer comment(s):

agree ormiston : Good points.
8 mins
agree mchd : très juste !
2 hrs
agree Janice Giffin : and very interesting!
5 hrs
One of the things I love about translation is the myriad of trivia one can learn when researching.
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

3 hrs
Reference:

fwiw/hth

Plein-Ciel - Google Books Result
google.be
https://books.google.be › books

Siècle Vaëlban, ‎Elsa Roman · 2024 · ‎ Young Adult Fiction
... Le taffetas se souleva , dévoilant les motifs de la frise à la lisière du cotillon . Il fallait s'approcher pour distinguer la finesse de la broderie . On ...
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