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Glossary entry

German term or phrase:

bandumwundenen Bündelstäbe

English translation:

[encompassed/framed by] fasces / bundles of rods wound with ribbons

Added to glossary by Dr. Andrew Hudson
May 9, 2014 21:21
10 yrs ago
German term

bandumwundenen Bündelstäbe

German to English Art/Literary Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting Pottery
This term describes a porcelain fruit basket. The whole sentence is:

Der Fuß des Korbes ist mit einem Korbgeflechtmuster ausgestattet, das von bandumwundenen Bündelstäben eingefasst wird.

I'm thinking "bordered by bundles of sticks wrapped in ribbons."

Am I close?

Thanks,

Andrew Hudson
Proposed translations (English)
4 [encompassed/framed by] fasces / bundles of rods wound with ribbons

Discussion

Dr. Andrew Hudson (asker) May 13, 2014:
Thank you to all! I think bundles of rods seems to be best. I really appreciate all the answers and help given.
Helen Shiner May 12, 2014:
@AndrewH712 Hi Andrew - those are not fasces. Having seen the pic, I think the GER is rather strangely expressed. It looks like a knotted tree/branch frieze set into the basketwork, fully encompassing the whatever it is (fruit bowl?). It may be if the image was clearer, that one would find that the central rod in each knot is bound round with ribbons - the surface doesn't look smooth, but it is hard to see from the pic. The curlicues do though look more like branching stems than ribbons, so maybe that is what is going on.
Dr. Andrew Hudson (asker) May 12, 2014:
Helen and Lonnie,

I hope this link works:

http://screencast.com/t/mQi8DlzQjszQ

I've been planning to use fasces, but am still not sure to which part of this basket Bündelstab is referring-the round shapes in the middle? The vertical rods?

Anyway, I hope this link works.
Lonnie Legg May 12, 2014:
@Helen Your point was quite clear, and I'm familiar with the fasces as a design element. To me, it's not 100% clear that this is what the source text is referring to...
Helen Shiner May 12, 2014:
@Lonnie A Buendelstab (on phone hence no Umlaut) is a discrete design element. It is separate from the basketwork. It is very similar to a fasces; my point is that the difference can only be determined stylistically when one looks at the intent of the design overall, i.e. is this Neo-Classical or referencing Etruscan design, in which case fasces, or not, in which case bundles of rods. I have to deal with this a lot when regularly translating texts and auction catalogues about Meissen and other porcelain. I can't find anything online easily to demonstrate this.
Lonnie Legg May 12, 2014:
@Andrew Pity, you haven't linked a photo. Since there's no contrary indication in your conversation with Helen, she must be on target, though fasces would be more precisely termed "Stabbündel". My more literal reading of "Bündelstäbe" was that the foot is girdled by the bunched stems/sticks of the basketwork; and then encompassed by ribbon.
Helen Shiner May 10, 2014:
@Cilian and Andrew Fine by me but it is nearly 1am here, and what am I doing up to answer this??? I think the only issue is stylistic, i.e. whether fasces would be better. If it dates from the Napoleonic era, for instance, then a republican symbol like that would be completely in line with Neo-Classical designs. Otherwise it is just bundles of rods.
Off to bed now; will happily look in the morning (GMT+1).
Cilian O'Tuama May 10, 2014:
Well you could mail the picture to Helen, if she doesn't mind. :-)
Or locate/post it on the internet and post a link here.
Dr. Andrew Hudson (asker) May 10, 2014:
Cilian, I tried to copy one using Jing but could not. Is there another way? I have a picture of it as part of the book I'm translating.
Helen Shiner May 9, 2014:
Bündelstab is a typical element of Baroque ornament and features a lot on Meißen and other such porcelain. In Baroque ornament so much is wound with ribbons or bands of all sorts of things: beads, dots, floral motifs, etc.
Cilian O'Tuama May 9, 2014:
Picture? Would be easier with a picture. Have you asked your client for one? Just an idea.

Proposed translations

1 hr
Selected

[encompassed/framed by] fasces / bundles of rods wound with ribbons

encompassed by bundles of rods wound with ribbons

You might want to consider the term 'fasces', which may be associated with Fascism more recently, but had Etruscan and Roman roots and frequently featured in the art and architecture of the periods: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasces
If this work makes reference to those ancient art forms, then I think I would go with fasces.

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Note added at 2 days16 hrs (2014-05-12 13:56:04 GMT)
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Having seen the image, I think I would go for something like this: encompassed by branching rods bound by ribbons
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Helen, Thank you so much for your continued responses to this issue! I really appreciate it. Andrew Hudson ahtranslations.eduweb20.com"
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