Glossary entry (derived from question below)
German term or phrase:
berufslos
English translation:
not in paid/gainful employment
Added to glossary by
Mary Worby
Sep 12, 2002 10:56
21 yrs ago
German term
United Kingdom
Friendly, reliable and accurate!
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, French to English
Berufslose
German to English
Marketing
Marketing
market research
This is an 'employment' category in a breakdown of details of people responding to a market research survey.
My instint was to call them 'unemployed', but they make up 40 % of what is supposed to be a representative sample of the population. So I guess we're talking the unemployed, housewives, pensioners, etc. Essentially people who don't, won't or can't work!
Do we have a nice neat little term for these people in English. Space is an issue.
As ever, many thanks for your help.
Mary
My instint was to call them 'unemployed', but they make up 40 % of what is supposed to be a representative sample of the population. So I guess we're talking the unemployed, housewives, pensioners, etc. Essentially people who don't, won't or can't work!
Do we have a nice neat little term for these people in English. Space is an issue.
As ever, many thanks for your help.
Mary
Proposed translations
(English)
| 3 +1 | persons not gainfully employed |
Beate Lutzebaeck
|
| 5 +4 | without occupation |
Steffen Walter
|
| 5 +2 | Nonemployed |
lone (X)
|
| 4 +1 | yes, I think your note is a good suggestion |
Louise Mawbey
|
| 5 | How about |
sylvie malich (X)
|
| 4 | unskilled |
Wolf Brosius (X)
|
| 3 | non-working persons |
Susan Starling
|
| 2 +1 | unemployed and inactive |
Sheila Hardie
|
| 3 | non-professional |
jerrie
|
Proposed translations
+1
21 mins
Beate Lutzebaeck
New Zealand
New Zealand
Native in German
&
English
Works in field
New Zealand
Double qualification in law (Germany/NZ)
Native in: German 
, English
Works in: English to German, German to English, French to German, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
8
Selected
persons not gainfully employed
I wonder whether "persons not gainfully employed" would fit.
My Siemens, Dico of Personnel and Educational Terms offers "without a trade" for berufslos, which certainly conveys only part of the picture.
Apparently, Berufslosigkeit is divided into the following categories (in Austria anyway):
5. Einteilung der Bevölkerung:
Die Bevölkerung wird nach dem überwiegenden Lebensunterhalt eingeteilt in Berufstätige
(Beschäftigte - Arbeitslose), Berufslose Einkommensempfänger (Pensionisten, Rentner,
son-stige berufslose Einkommensempfänger, unbekannt) und Erhaltene Personen
(Hausfrauen/-männer ohne eigenes Einkommen - Kinder, Schüler, Studenten ohne eigenes Einkommen - sonstige erhaltenen Personen). Karenzurlauberinnen, Präsenz-und Zivildiener zählen zu den
Beschäftigten. Die Erwerbsquote stellt den Anteil der Berufstätigen an der Bevölkerung dar.
In "German" German, these people would be called Erwerbslose, i.e. the opposite of Erwerbstätige = gainfully employed.
Granted, if space is an issue, this might be too wordy.
My Siemens, Dico of Personnel and Educational Terms offers "without a trade" for berufslos, which certainly conveys only part of the picture.
Apparently, Berufslosigkeit is divided into the following categories (in Austria anyway):
5. Einteilung der Bevölkerung:
Die Bevölkerung wird nach dem überwiegenden Lebensunterhalt eingeteilt in Berufstätige
(Beschäftigte - Arbeitslose), Berufslose Einkommensempfänger (Pensionisten, Rentner,
son-stige berufslose Einkommensempfänger, unbekannt) und Erhaltene Personen
(Hausfrauen/-männer ohne eigenes Einkommen - Kinder, Schüler, Studenten ohne eigenes Einkommen - sonstige erhaltenen Personen). Karenzurlauberinnen, Präsenz-und Zivildiener zählen zu den
Beschäftigten. Die Erwerbsquote stellt den Anteil der Berufstätigen an der Bevölkerung dar.
In "German" German, these people would be called Erwerbslose, i.e. the opposite of Erwerbstätige = gainfully employed.
Granted, if space is an issue, this might be too wordy.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Louise Mawbey
: I think a lot of housewives would object to being categorised as not gainfully employed - it would negate the work they do
4 mins
|
|
Well, I guess this is more a question of political correctness than linguistics. gainfully employed = erwerbstätig - housewives (or homemakers ... ;-)) are not considered erwerbstätig in Germany either, a bone of contention.
|
|
| agree |
Lydia Molea
10 mins
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks to everyone for your suggestions. I'm going for Darien's answer because this was what set me off on the right track to come up with my solution 'not in paid employment'. Whilst 'paid' and 'gainful' are technically the same in meaning, I feel that, for whatever reason, 'paid' doesn't have the same undertones of 'worthwhile' as 'gainful'. I had considered the non-professional / unskilled option as well. But I already have 'Arbeiter' as a category and I couldn't imagine 'unskilled workers' making up 40 percent of the population, especially as it would have left me with no category for all those housewives, pensioners, students, etc. Thanks again to everyone who contributed"
+4
16 mins
Steffen Walter
Germany
Germany
Native in German
Works in field
Germany
Top-Notch Service | Direct Clients Only
Native in: German (Variant: Germany) 
Works in: English to German, German to English, French to German, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
246
without occupation
I would say (if space permits)
If we're talking about the share of this category in total population, this must also include students, minors etc. (provided the survey starts with 14-year-olds or the like). "Unemployed" would indeed be more restrictive compared to your indication.
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Note added at 2002-09-12 11:52:33 (GMT)
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Yes, Mary, \"not in paid employment\" would do the trick perfectly, without conjuring up negative sidelines of any sort.
If we're talking about the share of this category in total population, this must also include students, minors etc. (provided the survey starts with 14-year-olds or the like). "Unemployed" would indeed be more restrictive compared to your indication.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-09-12 11:52:33 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Yes, Mary, \"not in paid employment\" would do the trick perfectly, without conjuring up negative sidelines of any sort.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Louise Mawbey
: This has no negative overtones
13 mins
|
|
Thanks, also agree with you on Mary's afterthought alternative :-)
|
|
| agree |
Endre Both
25 mins
|
|
Danke Endre :-)
|
|
| agree |
Frank Bremster
45 mins
|
|
Vielen Dank ;-)
|
|
| agree |
Susan Geiblinger
3 hrs
|
|
thks
|
16 mins
non-working persons
... is what first comes to mind. Maybe someone else has something better?
+1
20 mins
Sheila Hardie
Spain
Spain
Native in English
Spain
passion des mots
Native in: English
Works in: Catalan to English, French to English, Spanish to English, and 2 more.
unemployed and inactive
Just an idea - jobless could also be used instead of unemployed perhaps?
HTH
Sheila
National Statistics Office - MALTA - [Traduzca esta página ]
... unemployed and inactive (which includes housewives, pensioners and ... Unemployment rates
– This represents the unemployed ... included the number of people ...
www.nso.gov.mt/cosnews/news01/news2201.htm - 101k - En caché - Páginas similares
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-09-12 11:18:23 (GMT)
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inactive population
Labour force survey results - [Traduzca esta página ]
... Inactive population - survey age and older who are not assigned to any group of ... This
group embraces school children, students, housewives, pensioners ...
www.std.lt/STATISTIKA/Socialine/uzimtumas/ gyv_uzimt_01lapkr_e.htm - 32k - En caché - Páginas similares
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-09-12 11:19:23 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
STATISTICS SINGAPORE - KeyStats - Glossary - Census 2000 Concepts ... - [Traduzca esta página ]
... inactive persons refer to persons who were not working and not looking for work
during the reference period. They include housewives, students, pensioners, ...
www.singstat.gov.sg/keystats/glossary/cglossary.html - 41k - En caché - Páginas similares
Policy and Research - [Traduzca esta página ]
... one non - pensioner), One non -pensioner adult only, Two or more pensioners ... Economically
inactive refers to the long term sick and disabled, housewives ...
www.newcastle.gov.uk/pr.nsf/a/DeneWardProfile - 60k - 10 Sep 2002 - En caché - Páginas similares
Structural adjustment and agriculture in Guyana: From crisis to ... - [Traduzca esta página ]
... labour force was estimated at 467,173 (last row of table 7), but 40 per cent were
in the inactive category, being housewives, students and pensioners, leaving ...
www.ilo.org/public/english/dialogue/ sector/papers/agrguyan/143e4.htm - 83k - 10 Sep 2002 - En caché - Páginas similares
www.astoncharities.org.uk/research/newham/whamsum.txt - [Traduzca esta página ]
... Among inactive women two fifths are retired, under one ... terms of ethnic group, housing,
household type (pensioners ... most time at home (eg the retired, housewives ...
41k - En caché - Páginas similares
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-09-12 12:32:10 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I agree that \'not in paid employment\' sound good - no negative connotations.
HTH
Sheila
National Statistics Office - MALTA - [Traduzca esta página ]
... unemployed and inactive (which includes housewives, pensioners and ... Unemployment rates
– This represents the unemployed ... included the number of people ...
www.nso.gov.mt/cosnews/news01/news2201.htm - 101k - En caché - Páginas similares
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-09-12 11:18:23 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
inactive population
Labour force survey results - [Traduzca esta página ]
... Inactive population - survey age and older who are not assigned to any group of ... This
group embraces school children, students, housewives, pensioners ...
www.std.lt/STATISTIKA/Socialine/uzimtumas/ gyv_uzimt_01lapkr_e.htm - 32k - En caché - Páginas similares
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-09-12 11:19:23 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
STATISTICS SINGAPORE - KeyStats - Glossary - Census 2000 Concepts ... - [Traduzca esta página ]
... inactive persons refer to persons who were not working and not looking for work
during the reference period. They include housewives, students, pensioners, ...
www.singstat.gov.sg/keystats/glossary/cglossary.html - 41k - En caché - Páginas similares
Policy and Research - [Traduzca esta página ]
... one non - pensioner), One non -pensioner adult only, Two or more pensioners ... Economically
inactive refers to the long term sick and disabled, housewives ...
www.newcastle.gov.uk/pr.nsf/a/DeneWardProfile - 60k - 10 Sep 2002 - En caché - Páginas similares
Structural adjustment and agriculture in Guyana: From crisis to ... - [Traduzca esta página ]
... labour force was estimated at 467,173 (last row of table 7), but 40 per cent were
in the inactive category, being housewives, students and pensioners, leaving ...
www.ilo.org/public/english/dialogue/ sector/papers/agrguyan/143e4.htm - 83k - 10 Sep 2002 - En caché - Páginas similares
www.astoncharities.org.uk/research/newham/whamsum.txt - [Traduzca esta página ]
... Among inactive women two fifths are retired, under one ... terms of ethnic group, housing,
household type (pensioners ... most time at home (eg the retired, housewives ...
41k - En caché - Páginas similares
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-09-12 12:32:10 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I agree that \'not in paid employment\' sound good - no negative connotations.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Louise Mawbey
: I also think this has a negative touch - you can be very active when retired or unemployed. The problem is I can't think of an appropriate term
8 mins
|
|
I fully agree it sounds negative, but it does seem to be used a lot in official contexts:-)
|
|
| agree |
Jutta Amri
: I think Erwerbslose, are people who just don't have a job, but an education. Berufslos means "ohne Beruf",that means without profession or without education.But 40% ??? without profession?
3 hrs
|
+2
40 mins
Nonemployed
Short and often used in surveys.
Good luck.
Good luck.
Reference:
+1
46 mins
yes, I think your note is a good suggestion
very neutral and should cover everything
1 hr
How about
(C:
actually just kidding!
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-09-12 12:21:19 (GMT)
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*between jobs*
_____________
(should be above instead of the \\ , don\'t know how that happened ...)
actually just kidding!
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-09-12 12:21:19 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
*between jobs*
_____________
(should be above instead of the \\ , don\'t know how that happened ...)
3 hrs
non-professional
professional / non-professional
skilled / unskilled
Just a thought...bearing in mind the high percentage.
skilled / unskilled
Just a thought...bearing in mind the high percentage.
6 hrs
unskilled
Beruf refers normally to a trade or an occupation that requires training and an examination after a prescribed syllabus has been completed.Berufslose are persons that do not have formal skills.
Discussion
Would that cover all bases and avoid negative connotations?