May 1, 2015 15:13
9 yrs ago
German term
dis DIS
German to English
Art/Literary
Music
Bell tones
Haupttöne der Glocke: dis/1 - dis/0 - DIS - fis/0 - ais/0.
d sharp 1, d sharp 0, f sharp 0 and a sharp 0 are clear but what is the upper-case DIS?
d sharp 1, d sharp 0, f sharp 0 and a sharp 0 are clear but what is the upper-case DIS?
Proposed translations
(English)
3 +2 | d# D# (one octave between them, D# being lower) | Hans-Jochen Trost |
3 -1 | minor/major | Ramey Rieger (X) |
Proposed translations
+2
47 mins
Selected
d# D# (one octave between them, D# being lower)
Es handelt sich bei DIS um die nächste Oktave unter (tiefer) dis/0. Englische Texte scheinen in diesem Zusammenhang keine Unterscheidungen zu machen nach Groß- und Kleinschreibung (siehe zweite Grassmayr-Referenz) und benutzen dann die deutsche Notierung:
http://www.hibberts.co.uk/terhardt.htm
Insofern ist mein Übersetzungsvorschlag also ungenau, aber mir fällt nichts besseres dazu ein.
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Note added at 50 mins (2015-05-01 16:04:11 GMT)
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I apologize - I should have used English in the explanation.
http://www.hibberts.co.uk/terhardt.htm
Insofern ist mein Übersetzungsvorschlag also ungenau, aber mir fällt nichts besseres dazu ein.
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Note added at 50 mins (2015-05-01 16:04:11 GMT)
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I apologize - I should have used English in the explanation.
Note from asker:
No problem Hans-Jochen! Deutsch verstehe ich fast genau so gut (aber nur fast). Danke! |
Peer comment(s):
agree |
philgoddard
: This sounds convincing, but I can't see anything in your references that supports your answer. //Thanks!
12 mins
|
Yes, there is no outrigth explanation, but the use does fit. I just posted a discussion entry with details.
|
|
agree |
Erik Freitag
: That'd be the obvious explanation, however, I'm having doubts about the coherence of the source text. Thanks for the very helpful and interesting links!
6 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you, Hans-Jochen."
-1
2 hrs
minor/major
according to the live expert
Peer comment(s):
disagree |
Erik Freitag
: The expert must have been denied even what little context we have. Capitalization is indeed used to differentiate between minor and major keys or chords, but we're talking about individual tones/notes here, which can't be minor or major./I would.
4 hrs
|
As the source text is rather sketchy, I would not rule out this suggestion.
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Discussion
In other words: IMHO, this problem can't be solved without further context and/or asking the client for clarification. However, it's worth repeating that minor and major certainly play no role here.
Hans' explanations and links are indeed helpful in order to learn something about the surprisingly peculiar and complicated acoustics and psychoacoustics of bells.
That aside, I strongly suspect that something's wrong with the source text, no matter from which perspective you look at it:
1. The term "Hauptton" is a bit fuzzy. If the text really talks about one single bell, it should have only one "Hauptton" (which should be called "Schlagton" or "Nominal". The multiple tones compounding the sound of a bell are called "Teiltöne" (quite the opposite of "Haupttöne".
2. Maybe the source should read "Haupttöne der Glocken" (plural), but if the notes denominate multiple bells, the resulting ensemble would be quite unusual.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellfounding
Scroll down some to find this quote:
"The bell's strongest harmonics are tuned to be at octave intervals below the nominal note, but other notes also need to be brought into their proper relationship."
The question at hand is about a bell and names three octaves of the dominant tone plus a few other harmonics. If I am not mistaken, the notes diagram on this page
http://www.russianbells.com/choosing/sound.html
shows three octaves of C, one Es and a G as the main tones of a bell.
Here are a few more pages that speak to this concept of leading tone and harmonics or overtones:
http://www.verdin.com/bells/cast-bronze-bells.php
http://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/douglas-craig/bells/Basic/tunin...
http://www.hibberts.co.uk/phd/phdart2.htm
http://www.hibberts.co.uk/rayleigh.htm
http://www.hibberts.co.uk/simpson2.htm
The last one describes the tone of a bell made in 1477 for the Cathedral of Erfurt, Germany as
E, e, g#, b, e', g'#, b', c'#
Major and minor descriptions of keys, intervals or chords, they aren't tones. Perhaps the capitalization refers to the octave but I really don't know.