Glossary entry

German term or phrase:

das gemeine Wesen

English translation:

polity / commonwealth

Added to glossary by Marcus Malabad
Jul 9, 2006 12:03
17 yrs ago
5 viewers *
German term

das gemeine Wesen

German to English Social Sciences Philosophy
Hi,
The term is taken from Immanuel Kant's writings, although I have seen it on the net used by others, but I could not really find the right translation.

"...dass nämlich die dem Gesetz Gehorchenden auch zugleich, vereinigt, gesetzgebend sein sollen, liegt bei allen Staatsformen zum Grunde, und DAS GEMEINE WESEN, welches ihr, gemäss durch reine Vernuftbegriffe gedacht, ein platinisches Ideal heisst..."

Thanks for any help

Yiftah
Change log

Jul 9, 2006 13:05: Kim Metzger changed "Field" from "Other" to "Social Sciences"

Discussion

Ian M-H (X) Jul 9, 2006:
There seems to be a technical problem affecting the glossary. For the record: I entered a strong "agree" for a glossary entry ("commonwealth") which was then amended. I would not have agreed as unequivocally with the version now in the glossary.

Proposed translations

-2
4 mins
Selected

community

old german for "gemeinwesen"
Peer comment(s):

disagree Ian M-H (X) : This appears to be a guess - or have you seen a translation/discussion of Kant's writings where "community" is preferred in this context to "commonwealth"? Answering specialist questions without specialist knowledge isn't helpful to askers.
1 hr
disagree Francis Lee (X) : Native English speaker? Träum weiter ...
1 day 1 hr
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks :-)"
+4
6 mins

common being

Post-Structuralism and the Question of History - [ Traduzir esta página ]The argument runs as follows: the existence of the (das gemeine Wesen) is the referent of a phrase which is either cognitive (of the ...
phoenixandturtle.net/excerptmill/atlridge.htm - 90k - Em cache - Páginas Semelhantes


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Note added at 9 mins (2006-07-09 12:13:46 GMT)
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The right reference I wanted to paste is:

Post-Structuralism and the Question of History - [ Traduzir esta página ]The argument runs as follows: the existence of the 'common being' (das gemeine Wesen) is the referent of a phrase which is either cognitive (of the ...
phoenixandturtle.net/excerptmill/atlridge.htm - 90k - Em cache - Páginas Semelhantes
Note from asker:
I think your translation is literal, and does not translate the meaning. But thanks for helping.
Peer comment(s):

agree Zoe Green
0 min
Thanks
agree Henry Schroeder : http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&q="the common being" Kant&...
0 min
Thanks
agree MMUlr : ???? why so much research and checking the Kant-related texts? ... ;-))
39 mins
agree Kim Metzger : This would appear to be the best translation. See below.
43 mins
Something went wrong...
+4
1 hr

Post-grading background info

Dear Yiftah - I hope the next time you visit us with an interesting and challenging term you remember KudoZ rule 2.11 for asking questions:

Sufficient time should be allowed for responses to be made. It is recommended that askers allow at least twenty-four (24) hours to pass before closing a question.

Kant, AA VII : Der Streit der Fakultäten - The Contest of Faculties

zugleich, vereinigt, gesetzgebend sein sollen, liegt bei allen Staatsformen zum Grunde, und das gemeine Wesen, welches, ihr gemäß durch reine Vernunftbegriffe gedacht, ein platonisches Ideal heißt ( respublica noumenon ),

http://www.ikp.uni-bonn.de/Kant/aa07/091.html

In general in Kant's work the cognitive phrase, with its double criterion of pertinence (with respect to negation or the principle of contradiction on the one hand, and to intuitive perception on the other), is opposed to vain hopes, false promises and prophecies. It is used to refute the right of insurrection and to condemn the violent substitution of a new authority for the old one. The argument runs as follows: the existence of the 'common being' (das gemeine Wesen) is the referent of a phrase which is either cognitive (of the understanding) or objective-teleological (finality in organised beings). This common being's proximity to the Good is judged in a subjective-teleological phrase (moral finality in rational beings). Revolution breaks open (Abbruch) an existing common being: another cannot fail to replace it (by natural law). The heterogeneity of the two families of phrases is not modified. Revolutionary politics is based on a transcendental illusion in the political domain, confusing what can be presented as an object for a cognitive phrase and what can be presented as an object for a speculative and/or ethical phrase - in other words it confuses schemata or examples with analoga. The progress of a common being for the better is not to be judged on the basis of empirical intuition, but on the basis of signs.

http://phoenixandturtle.net/excerptmill/atlridge.htm

Post-Structuralism and the Question of History
The name 'Kant' (it is not the only one) marks at once the prologue and the ... runs as follows: the existence of the 'common being' (das gemeine Wesen) is ...

phoenixandturtle.net/excerptmill/atlridge.htm

Hence arises a state, a republic, a “common being” Wesen].370 These three concepts are identical, if one takes the word republic in the most general sense, as its chief significance demands. A state or republic, however, is a society of human beings who have combined with one another in order to promote their common happiness under a sovereign power; or, in other words, a state consists of many families, that have united their energies and their will with one another in order to combine the happiness of each particular family with the common good (§6).

http://socserv2.mcmaster.ca/~econ/ugcm/3ll3/small/Cameralist...


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Note added at 1 hr (2006-07-09 13:14:24 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

MMUIr's suggestion is excellent:

The fully achieved version of such a society would be what Kant
terms an ethical commonwealth (“ethisches gemeines Wesen”).
An ethical commonwealth is a “union of men under merely moral
[as opposed to juridical] laws” ; it can exist in the midst of a political commonwealth; it may even include all the members of a
political commonwealth (R 86). However, in human hands this
ethical ideal “dwindles markedly” (R 91), although it can be
approximated, more or less well, by the visible church (R 91ff.).

http://www.tannerlectures.utah.edu/lectures/oneill97.pdf
Note from asker:
First I want to thank all of you who answered!! The reason I closed the question so early is that I found my answer and so no point in troubling more people with it. But I still find the first translation the closest, and the hint Salvador gave me, that it is an old German word "Gemeinwesen" helped, and then I could find the most appropriate translation which is "polity". Mary J. Gregor translates this term (I found this translation only just a few minutes ago) to "body politic" (in Kant's The Conflict of Faculties). So I still maintain my view that common being would be a literal translation, whereas Polity or even community fit much better to the text and meaning.
Peer comment(s):

agree MMUlr : Nice contribution, Kim! (and you can also find "commonwealth" for gemeines Wesen.)
4 mins
Yes - nice suggestion!
agree Ian M-H (X) : Definitely "commonwealth" in this context. "Der Streit der Fakultäten" is also (most often?) translated as "The Conflict of the Faculties" (rather than "contest").
55 mins
Yes - The Conflict of Faculties http://www.rep.routledge.com/article/DB047
agree Francis Lee (X) : words fail me, Kim, except: chapeau ...
1 hr
agree Lancashireman : This outcome of this question, the hasty manner in which it was graded, the snooty comment to the answerer above… This page is looking increasingly farcical with every hour that passes. The chances of the asker returning are, however, probably slender.
1 hr
Something went wrong...
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