Glossary entry (derived from question below)
German term or phrase:
bedeuten / bezeichnen
English translation:
to mean / to signify
Added to glossary by
Steffen Walter
Feb 14, 2004 18:42
20 yrs ago
2 viewers *
German term
Sandra Dimas
bedeuten
Homework / test
German to English
Social Sciences
Philosophy
understanding Wittgenstein
How does bedeuten and bedeutung compare to bezeichnen and zeichen? Can any of the above words correspond with "significance?"
Proposed translations
(English)
| 3 | (cf de Saussure?) |
Robert M Maier
|
| 4 +3 | bedeuten = to mean / to signify ........ |
swisstell
|
| 5 +2 | not important |
Lars Helbig
|
| 4 | several meanings |
Alexandra Becker
|
| 3 +1 | Meaning/signification |
Alarch Gwyn
|
Proposed translations
16 hrs
Selected
(cf de Saussure?)
In Std German usage these days, "Bedeutung" can take a meaning of "significance", but also of "meaning".
Now I haven't been into philosophy (after c18) that much myself, but Wittgenstein borders on some linguistic topics. "bezeichnen" and "bedeuten" reminds me of the Saussurean distinction of "signifiant" and "signifiee"... in this sense, they are very similar (to me) but not quite:
- whereas "bezeichnen" would indicate the actional quality of a signifiant (which is considered to be) pointing to one *specific* (class of) signifiee,
- "bedeuten" would indicate a signifiant pointing *in the general direction* of a signifiee.
Does that help in any way?
I don't think example sentences could be of much use with comprehension questions about philosophical texts... there, one should rather ask for an example *text* - which, however, could only serve to help figure out the meaning of the words in it _as_far_as_they_are_in_it_.
Now I haven't been into philosophy (after c18) that much myself, but Wittgenstein borders on some linguistic topics. "bezeichnen" and "bedeuten" reminds me of the Saussurean distinction of "signifiant" and "signifiee"... in this sense, they are very similar (to me) but not quite:
- whereas "bezeichnen" would indicate the actional quality of a signifiant (which is considered to be) pointing to one *specific* (class of) signifiee,
- "bedeuten" would indicate a signifiant pointing *in the general direction* of a signifiee.
Does that help in any way?
I don't think example sentences could be of much use with comprehension questions about philosophical texts... there, one should rather ask for an example *text* - which, however, could only serve to help figure out the meaning of the words in it _as_far_as_they_are_in_it_.
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
5 mins
Alexandra Becker
Germany
Germany
Native in German
Germany
Translation, localization and DTP
Native in: German 
Works in: English to German, French to German, Spanish to German, and 1 more.
several meanings
significance = Bedeutung (often in the sense of "importance".
bedeuten: Das bedeutet = This means ...
zeichnen means subscribe for shares (financial context)
bedeuten: Das bedeutet = This means ...
zeichnen means subscribe for shares (financial context)
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Chris Rowson (X)
: "zecihnen" also means draw (as in portray) and "bezeichnen" can also mean describe, delineate etc. which seems more relevant to Wittgenstein than share issues do.
46 mins
|
| neutral |
ECP11
: It says *Zeichen*, misspelt as *zeichen* in the question, not *zeichnen*. - Obviously the asker does not really have a German version of Wittgenstein's text at hand, he is just teasing us.(sign-designation, Zeichen-Bezeichnung)
3 hrs
|
+3
7 mins
bedeuten = to mean / to signify ........
.. Bedeutung = meaning or significance
... bezeichnen = to mark, denote, designate
.... Bezeichnung = mark, denotation, designation
off the top of my head. There are no doubt more possibilities but this ought to answer your question.
... bezeichnen = to mark, denote, designate
.... Bezeichnung = mark, denotation, designation
off the top of my head. There are no doubt more possibilities but this ought to answer your question.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Chris Rowson (X)
44 mins
|
| agree |
Mario Marcolin
: yes :) somewhat simplified: bedeutung = connotation, bezeichnung = denotation
17 hrs
|
| agree |
gangels (X)
19 hrs
|
+2
3 hrs
Lars Helbig
Germany
Germany
Native in German
Germany
fast & flexible - accurate & aesthetic
Native in: German
Works in: English to German, German to English, German
not important
I think a accurate definition of the 'meaning of meaning' goes beyond the capabilities of this forum. You should not put to much worth on the fact that the terms used originated in the german language. The everyday german meaning of the words has little in common with their usage in those philosphical texts.
Yes, you could translate Bedeutung into english and get 'meaning' or 'signifance' but that alone means nothing. You have to actually read the books to get an understanding of what Wittgenstein means with Bedeutung.
Yes, you could translate Bedeutung into english and get 'meaning' or 'signifance' but that alone means nothing. You have to actually read the books to get an understanding of what Wittgenstein means with Bedeutung.
Reference:
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Kim Metzger
8 mins
|
| agree |
ECP11
: That's exactly what I meant to say in my comment to the question.
26 mins
|
|
sorry I had only read the answers and not seen your comment up there
|
|
| agree |
Geneviève von Levetzow
1 hr
|
| agree |
Bentext
: Comment of the month :)
3 hrs
|
| agree |
Cécile Kellermayr
11 hrs
|
| disagree |
Robert M Maier
: Philosophical usage springs monodirectionally from everyday usage. Even when reading the original, you may have difficulties to comprehend the full semantic range that the author had at her/his command, if you're not a native speaker yourself.
12 hrs
|
| disagree |
Mario Marcolin
: Yes, you have to read Wittgenstein to know what he means, but that doesn't change the fact that he uses words that are indeed translatable! :)
13 hrs
|
| disagree |
gangels (X)
: with Robert/Mario
16 hrs
|
+1
17 hrs
Meaning/signification
Putting it very simply:
In semiotics a sign is broken down into signifier (Bezeichnung) and signified (Bezeichneten), which is the "thing in itself" or an abstract concept. According to Saussure, I believe, the relationship between Bezeichnung and Bezeichneten is purely arbitrary. However the system is not arbitrary in itself.
This means that we cannot just invent our own language. We move within a system of signs.
Bedeutung is derived from the relationship of the signs amongst themselves within specific contexts.
Without knowing Wittgenstein I believe that his work explores these topics and also the idea of a "private language".
In semiotics a sign is broken down into signifier (Bezeichnung) and signified (Bezeichneten), which is the "thing in itself" or an abstract concept. According to Saussure, I believe, the relationship between Bezeichnung and Bezeichneten is purely arbitrary. However the system is not arbitrary in itself.
This means that we cannot just invent our own language. We move within a system of signs.
Bedeutung is derived from the relationship of the signs amongst themselves within specific contexts.
Without knowing Wittgenstein I believe that his work explores these topics and also the idea of a "private language".
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
gangels (X)
2 hrs
|
Discussion