Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Hungarian term or phrase:
kiugrott pap
English translation:
a priest who jumped ship / a priest that bailed out
Added to glossary by
hollowman2
Feb 6, 2010 10:08
14 yrs ago
Hungarian term
A zene az igazi világnyelv. (K.J.Weber)
Native in: Hungarian 
Works in: English to Hungarian, Hungarian to English, Hungarian, and 2 more.
kiugrott pap
Hungarian to English
Art/Literary
Poetry & Literature
Aki felhagyott a hivatásával.
(Múltszázad elején járunk. Pest belvárosa. 20-as évek.)
Minden – hangulatilag is elfogatható – javaslatot örömmel fogadok.
(Múltszázad elején járunk. Pest belvárosa. 20-as évek.)
Minden – hangulatilag is elfogatható – javaslatot örömmel fogadok.
Proposed translations
(English)
Change log
Sep 25, 2012 12:59: hollowman2 Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+4
1 day 1 hr
Selected
a priest who jumped ship / a priest that bailed out
I'll throw these on the pile. They are not a standard expressions (I gather the Hungarian is no longer widely used either). Their meaning, however, is clear, and is almost the same (on the literal level) as "kiugrott".
Note from asker:
| Köszönöm! |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
kyanzes
: Bail out is very good IMHO.
4 hrs
|
| agree |
Gizella Katalin Abrudan
: right ho! IMHO ;-)
6 hrs
|
| agree |
juvera
: The priest who resigned... The guy who relinquished/abandonned his priesthood... etc.
1 day 3 hrs
|
| agree |
Éva Vajda
1 day 11 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Köszönöm!"
+3
16 mins
Katalin Szilárd
Hungary
Hungary
Native in Hungarian
Hungary
[email protected] MEDICAL4ENDCLIENTS
Native in: Hungarian 
Works in: English to Hungarian, Hungarian to English
ex-priest
Az ex-férj, ex-feleség, ex-miniszter stb. mintájára.
Note from asker:
| Köszönöm! |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Jim Tucker (X)
: or "former p."
6 hrs
|
|
Thank you!
|
|
| agree |
kyanzes
7 hrs
|
|
Köszönöm!
|
|
| agree |
juvera
8 hrs
|
|
Köszönöm!
|
|
| disagree |
Ildiko Santana
: A "kiugrott" szó utal arra, hogy a volt pap (ex-pap?) miért nem pap már. Az "ex" pusztán azt jelzi, hogy korábban volt, de már nem (volt feleség, stb). Kevésbé pongyola angol változat: "formerly a priest", de ez sem hordozza a "kiugrás" jelentéstartalmát.
17 hrs
|
|
Dehogy, a kiugrott csak annyit jelent, hogy felhagyott a papi hivatásával. Ennyi, se több, se kevesebb. Nézz utána, ez biztos. Folytatás: discussionben
|
|
| agree |
Éva Vajda
2 days 12 hrs
|
|
Köszönöm!
|
1 hr
JANOS SAMU
United States
United States
Works in field
United States
We know the language and the system too.
Works in: English to zzz Other zzz, English to Lao, English to Lithuanian, and 91 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
43
renegade priest
Szerintem hangulatilag ez illik legjobban ide. A katolikusoknál így hívják őket. Természetesen hivatalosan priest who left priesthood.
Note from asker:
| Köszönöm! |
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Katalin Szilárd
: A renegát azért az más jelent. Pl. kiugrott lehet egy pap, mert nem bírja elviselni a cölibátust, de ettől még ő hisz Istenben. A renegade inkább hitehagyott/hittagadó (negatív felhanggal).
21 mins
|
|
Tévedsz. Nézd meg az adott referenciát és általában azt, hogy a renegade priest kifejezést kikre használják.
|
|
| neutral |
Jim Tucker (X)
: I have not seen this usage either. I tried to open your link, but just can't get it to work.// János, there is no doubt the expression exists, and is quite common. The issue is whether this *usage* exists-- i.e. the meaning you suggest.
1 hr
|
|
Jim, just google it in quotation marks.
|
|
| neutral |
Ildiko Santana
: Itt egy történet, ahol egy "renegade priest" (a rebellious pastor, in other words) épp azért harcol, hogy pap maradhasson: http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?stor...
16 hrs
|
|
A discussion részben több forrást megadtam a renegade priestre.
|
2 hrs
Gizella Katalin Abrudan
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in Hungarian
Specializes in field
United Kingdom
Literary translator
Native in: Hungarian
Works in: English to Hungarian, Hungarian to English
Related KudoZ points
:
8
defrocked priest
Szövegkörnyezet segítene. Nem lehet tudni, hogy magától hagyta ott a klérust, vagy kitették, vagy egyéb ok kényszerítette a kilépésre. Ha saját döntése volt akkor is lehet mondani, hogy "he was a defrocked priest out of his own will/decision" A defrocked talán jobban illik a korhoz is.
"he left the clergy" - ezzel kiegészíthető.
A renegade priest azt gondolom, hogy kifejezetten az a személy, aki maga dönt úgy, hogy kilép, és lényegében hitehagyottá lesz. Mivel nincs szövegkörnyezet, ezt nem tudjuk. A "defrocked" is lehet hitehagyott is egyben, de nem feltétlenül.
"he left the clergy" - ezzel kiegészíthető.
A renegade priest azt gondolom, hogy kifejezetten az a személy, aki maga dönt úgy, hogy kilép, és lényegében hitehagyottá lesz. Mivel nincs szövegkörnyezet, ezt nem tudjuk. A "defrocked" is lehet hitehagyott is egyben, de nem feltétlenül.
Reference:
Note from asker:
| Köszönöm! |
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Katalin Szilárd
: Szerintem nem. Itt is arról van szó, hogy nem saját önszántából hagy fel hivatásával, és ha not allowed akkor ott vmi baj van : http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=1872482 +So a defrocked priest is one who is not allowed to function as a priest."
4 hrs
|
7 hrs
Ildiko Santana
United States
United States
Native in Hungarian
&
English
United States
Accurate / Fast / Cheap -- Pick Two
Native in: Hungarian , English
Works in: Hungarian to English, English to Hungarian, English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
24
resigned priest / laicized priest
A katolikus egyházi eljárásban egy pap elhagyhatja ugyan a papi hivatását (RESIGNED PRIEST), de mindig pap marad. A hivatás gyakorlásához való jogaitól megfosztják, és LAICIZED PRIEST lesz belőle. Hosszabban, a kiugrott pap: "a priest who has left his priesthood".
----
"Leaving the Priesthood
Once a priest, always a priest. Priesthood is like baptism and confirmation. Once received, it doesn't run off. But sometimes a priest will pursue another vocation and change his lifestyle. Here are several ways this happens.
1. Sabbaticals. A sabbatical is a time for study, prayer, and rest. A priest remains every inch a full functioning priest. He's getting updated so he can serve better.
2. Leave of Absence. Sometimes a priest needs a break to figure out if he's in the right place. He may take a leave of absence for a period of time. During this time he generally does not continue priestly ministry, but he's still a priest on the register.
3. Resignation. If a priest determines he cannot continue in priestly service, he may resign his ministry. He will no longer function as a priest. But if he were shipwrecked on a desert island with a dying Catholic who wanted to go to confession, he could give absolution.
4. Removal of Faculties. A priest works in a diocese because he has "faculties" or "permission" to do so. A bishop may remove those faculties for a serious reason; e.g., the priest suffers a mental disorder or commits some heinous crime.
5. Suspension. This is an imposed resignation. For example, if a priest does not resign, but marries, he will be suspended.
6. Laicization. An inaccurate term, but it refers to the process in Rome that frees a priest of his duties. If a priest submits his resignation, he may ask for laicization. A laicized priest is in full communion with the Church. Laicization is a long process."
----
"So what happens when a priest leaves the priesthood? Since Holy Orders is a character sacrament, once it has been validly received, it never is invalidated for any reason whatsoever. Granted, a cleric — deacon, priest, or bishop — may be freed from the clerical state and dispensed from the promise of celibacy by the proper authority. He may no longer have the obligations or the privileges to function as a cleric, but nevertheless he remains a cleric. Commonly, this practice is called laicization, meaning “returned to the state of the laity.” (Code of Canon Law, No. 290-293.)"
----
"Leaving the Priesthood
Once a priest, always a priest. Priesthood is like baptism and confirmation. Once received, it doesn't run off. But sometimes a priest will pursue another vocation and change his lifestyle. Here are several ways this happens.
1. Sabbaticals. A sabbatical is a time for study, prayer, and rest. A priest remains every inch a full functioning priest. He's getting updated so he can serve better.
2. Leave of Absence. Sometimes a priest needs a break to figure out if he's in the right place. He may take a leave of absence for a period of time. During this time he generally does not continue priestly ministry, but he's still a priest on the register.
3. Resignation. If a priest determines he cannot continue in priestly service, he may resign his ministry. He will no longer function as a priest. But if he were shipwrecked on a desert island with a dying Catholic who wanted to go to confession, he could give absolution.
4. Removal of Faculties. A priest works in a diocese because he has "faculties" or "permission" to do so. A bishop may remove those faculties for a serious reason; e.g., the priest suffers a mental disorder or commits some heinous crime.
5. Suspension. This is an imposed resignation. For example, if a priest does not resign, but marries, he will be suspended.
6. Laicization. An inaccurate term, but it refers to the process in Rome that frees a priest of his duties. If a priest submits his resignation, he may ask for laicization. A laicized priest is in full communion with the Church. Laicization is a long process."
----
"So what happens when a priest leaves the priesthood? Since Holy Orders is a character sacrament, once it has been validly received, it never is invalidated for any reason whatsoever. Granted, a cleric — deacon, priest, or bishop — may be freed from the clerical state and dispensed from the promise of celibacy by the proper authority. He may no longer have the obligations or the privileges to function as a cleric, but nevertheless he remains a cleric. Commonly, this practice is called laicization, meaning “returned to the state of the laity.” (Code of Canon Law, No. 290-293.)"
Reference:
http://www.paulturner.org/priesthood.htm
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0338.html
Note from asker:
| Köszönöm! |
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Katalin Szilárd
: A szövegkörnyezetből adódóan nem lehet tudni milyen egyház papjáról van szó. Szerintem 1 általánosan használt szó kell ide. Te adtad meg a katolikus egyházat a referenciádban.
4 mins
|
|
Szerinted a "resigned" nem elég általánosan használt szó? Neked rögtön a katolikus egyházat juttatja eszedbe? Nekem nem. Szerintem bármely egyház esetén megállja a helyét, és sokkal elegánsabb, mint az "ex-".
|
Discussion
He wrote "Fifty Years in the Church of Rome" after the Civil War. It was the source of the infamous – and fabricated – prophecy of Abraham Lincoln of a "dark cloud" coming over America from Rome. Chiniquy was still on the anti-Catholic preaching circuit in the early 19th century under the auspices of the American Protective Association (APA), a short-lived anti-Catholic populist movement.
Magyarán, ez aktivista, agitátor, aki *még mindig prédikál* a szöveged szerint.
(There is a usage of renegade that means "fallen Christian" -- but that dates from the Middle Ages.)
Chiniquy was a renegade priest who left after arguing with his bishop over parish assignments.
Csak azt ne kössétek ki, hogy miért hagyott fel a hivatásával.
Fortunately, the link you supply is working today. Let's have a look. The asker wants an expression that means:
"Aki felhagyott a hivatásával."
Your link, on the other hand, gives:
"Twenty renegade Catholic priests who are either married or want to marry have broken from the mainstream Roman Catholic Church in Uganda and formed a new church where celibacy is not required."
In other words, these are still priests (azaz nem hagytak fel a hivatásukkal -- söt, hangsúlyoznám, hogy még folytatják is), but they want to play by different rules than those of their original church.
You could make the argument that the asker misunderstands the original expression "kiugrott"-- this would work for you. But no one has suggested this.
Lehet egyszerűen csak "He left the clergy" lenne a megoldás, még ha hosszú is. Kár, hogy nem láthatjuk legalább azt a pár sort az eredetiből, ahol erről a kiugrott papról van szó.
Továbbá:
Main Entry: 1ren·e·gade
Pronunciation: ˈre-ni-ˌgād
Function: noun
Etymology: Spanish renegado, from Medieval Latin renegatus, from past participle of renegare to deny, from Latin re- + negare to deny — more at negate
Date: 1583
1 : a deserter from one faith, cause, or allegiance to another
2 : an individual who rejects lawful or conventional behavior
Próbáld ne renegátnak fordítani a renegade-ot. Nézd meg az angol szótárakban mit jelenthet még a renegade. Pl. DK Illustrated Oxfordban első helyen ez áll: Someone who deserts his party or a principle. A papi szolgálat egyik elve a papi nőtlenség. Ha ezt az elvet valaki elhagyja, akkor már renegade angolul. A kérdezőnek az kell, ami beillik hangulatilag a fordításba és nem félrevezető. Ez pedig beleillik ANGOLUL. Nem magyarra fordítunk.
renegát
hittagadó, áruló
Pont ez az, hogy ismerem ezt a szót, és a renegát mindig negatív jelentést hordoz magával.
Lásd:
http://www.napkut.hu/naput_2002/2002_10/106.htm
"Igazgatómnak (kiugrott pap volt, ráadásul renegát – nyugodjék békében!) a hatalom iránti mérhetetlen szervilizmusa egyszerűen elviselhetetlen volt számomra, amit sokadmagammal (köztük volt tanáraim is) megszenvedtem rendesen,..."
Ezért kell "semleges" kiugrás.
Megadtam egy forrást, de ha nem elég, itt van még:
Jan 11, 2010 ... Kampala — Twenty renegade Catholic priests who are either married or want to marry have broken from the mainstream Roman Catholic Church in ...
allafrica.com/stories/201001110521.html
és
http://www.rogueinrouge.com/2010/01/renegade-priests-v-reneg...
és
http://www.wapiz.com/banning renegade priests.pdf
és
http://americanpapist.com/labels/renegade priests.html
és
http://http//www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/...
Pl.
http://lezgetreal.com/?p=7320
"When Catholic Archbishop John Bathersby originally fired the renegade priest from his position at St Mary’s he threatened him with excommunication on the grounds of “causing harm to ecclesiastical communion.”"