Glossary entry

Russian term or phrase:

теоретический нуль глубин

English translation:

lowest possible sea level

Added to glossary by Denis Kazakov
May 29, 2004 16:03
19 yrs ago
Russian term

теоретический нуль глубин

Russian to English Tech/Engineering Geography ����������
Глубины в метрах приведены к теоретическому нулю глубин (ТНГ).

Discussion

nuclear May 31, 2004:
Right - that's how I took it :)/ Good if it helped
Non-ProZ.com May 31, 2004:
To nuclear It was a little chalenge :)
Actually I translated the term the way you proposed, i.e. with a qualifier.
Non-ProZ.com May 30, 2004:
��� �� ���������� �����������:
Chart Datum: A plan below which the tide will seldom fall. The Canadian Hydrographic Service has adopted the plane of Lowest Normal Tides (LNT) as chart datum. To find the depth of water, the height of tide must be added to the depth shown on the chart. Tidal heights preceded by a (-) must be subtracted from the charted depth. Note: United States tidal datum is Mean Low Water and can differ from Canadian datum by as much as 1.50 metres.
http://www.sjport.com/english/genlinfo/glossary.htm

� ������ ������� ��� ����� ����������:
Lower low water large tide (LLWLT): The average of the lowest low waters, one from each of 19 years of predictions.
Lower low water mean tide (LLWMT): The average of all the lower low waters from 19 years of predictions.
Lowest normal tide (LNT): In present usage it is synonymous with LLWLT, but on older charts it may refer to a variety of low water chart datums.
Non-ProZ.com May 30, 2004:
��� ������������. ��������� chart datum � ��������� ������� � "��������":
Chart Datum (CD)
The level of the lowest tide there has ever been at a particular place. All depths on a chart and heights of tide refer to it.
[Dictionary of Marine Biology and SCUBA Diving Terms]
http://www.scubatravel.co.uk/glossary.html

Proposed translations

1 hr
Russian term (edited): ������������ ��� ������
Selected

lowest possible sea level (other options at the end)

За нуль глубин на английских картах принят средний уровень сизигийных малых вод, на отечественных картах - наинизший возможный уровень моря, называемый теоретическим нулем глубин - прим. ред
http://www.1yachtua.com/School/navigation5.htm

"Their" theoretical zero depth is quite different from "ours" - it's mean sea level (!) rather than lowest. Типичный "ложный друг".

"2. What is meant by "altitude above sea level" and how is the zero reference determined.
Heights above sea level, like mountains or whatever, have traditionally been defined (and still are in most cases) in terms of a measurement of 'mean sea level' at one or more locations. That mean sea level, once determined at the location, is then carried around the country by means of surveyors' spirit levelling apparatus (i.e. better versions of the levelling apparatus you must have seen surveyors use in the road or construction industry).
So, for example, here in the U.K. we define heights above sea level in terms of 'Ordnance Datum Newlyn' (ODN) which is the mean level of the sea at Newlyn in Cornwall in S.W.England in the period May 1915 to April 1921 (which replaced an earlier Ordnance Datum Liverpool based on sea level in that port in 1844). That level has been carried around the country by surveyors' methods (i.e. levelling, which is equivalent to imagining a set of ficticious thin canals with no flow permeating the country which allow the ODN level, the 'zero' reference level of the height system, to be transferred from one place to another). So, a height of a Scottish mountain, for example, means height above ODN, which is the height above the sea level at Newlyn many years ago. Similarly, NAP (Normaal Amsterdam Peil) in the Netherlands is approximate mean sea level at Amsterdam (and represented by a mark in a shopping centre). French heights are relative to mean sea level at Marseille at a particular epoch.

In many countries, like the US or India with 2 coastlines there are often two or more datums as the distance from the sea to the mountains (or whatever) can be great and errors creep into the measurements. Also for oceanographic reasons sea level can really be different in different places i.e. mean sea level is not a 'level surface' (see 1). "
http://www.pol.ac.uk/psmsl/puscience/#2


The ref might seem irrelevant, but when they say zero-level COUNTUR (!) or chart datum, they mean THIS zero

Just one another link out of very many
Properties of seawater
... in the ocean is thus from near zero (surface) to 10,000 dbar (deepest). ... In the
ocean, we commonly use the sea surface as our "reference" pressure for ...
sam.ucsd.edu/sio210/lect_2/lecture_2.html - 42k

I failed to find a single English source, where they would count from this "theoretical absolute zero"
По-моему, вывод однозначный - если и употреблять дословный перевод, то только с таким пояснением в скобках.
Варианты - "Theor. absolute zero", "zero reference" (to avoid confusion with "their" term) etc.


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Note added at 1 hr 32 mins (2004-05-29 17:36:46 GMT)
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Georgy: I agree with your point, but still feel that if just \"theoretical zero-depth\" is left in the translation, it will inevitably cause confusion among English-speaking audience (readers)

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Note added at 1 hr 56 mins (2004-05-29 18:00:20 GMT)
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Well, I still see a difference between the case of \"0F vs 0C\" (two different measurement units exlplicitly indicated) and \"theoretical zero vs theoretical zero\" (two identical terms meaning different things. I\'ve seen many pro\'s finding such cases extremely confusing.
(e.g. psi)

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Note added at 1 day 18 hrs 44 mins (2004-05-31 10:48:46 GMT)
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My unbiased :) opinion remains the same - zero depth or chart datum (doesn\'t really matter, for all I know) - it has to be wigh a qualifier (national - CD or ZD adopted/used in the USSR (Russia), or technical - lowest possible....)
Peer comment(s):

neutral George Vardanyan : I understand your anxiety, but I think the "confusion" will not be intenser that one between 0°F and 0°C. Nobody finds it disastrous. Pro's are sure usual with this term and are converting automatically while reading Russian maps. OK :)
41 mins
I'm still not convince. Will leave it up to the asker, I guess.. :)
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you for detailed and informative answer."
+2
6 mins
Russian term (edited): ������������ ��� ������

theoretical chart datum

$

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Note added at 59 mins (2004-05-29 17:03:25 GMT)
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http://www.thehopewellrocks.ca/english/tidetables1.htm

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Note added at 1 hr 22 mins (2004-05-29 17:26:17 GMT)
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chart datum

Peer comment(s):

agree David Mitchell
2 hrs
Thanks, David!
agree Natalie : http://www.glossary.ru/cgi-bin/gl_sch2.cgi?RTwuilt;!suw9
1 day 4 hrs
Thanks, Natalie!
Something went wrong...
16 mins
Russian term (edited): ������������ ��� ������

theoretical zero-depth

В СССР принят теоретический Н.Г., наинизший возможный уровень моря. На Атлантическом побе-режье США за Н.Г. принят средний уровень малых вод, на Тихоокеанском — средний уровень низких малых вод, а в большинстве стран Европы — средний уровень сизи-гийных малых вод.

The high tidal boundary , therefore , has strongly gone back. according to the theoretical zero-depth contour from 1975 to 1985

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Note added at 15 hrs 44 mins (2004-05-30 07:48:22 GMT)
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\"chart datum\" is measured (is not theoretical) over a limited local area and a period of time, so it is none \"theoretical zero-depth\", see below:

chart datum—The datum to which levels on a nautical chart and tidal predictions are referred; usually defined in terms of a low-water tidal level, which means that a chart datum is not a horizontal surface, but it may be considered so over a limited local area.

http://amsglossary.allenpress.com/glossary/ search?id=chart-datum1

\"Chart Datum\" is the lowest mean water level measured over a period of time, for a particular area.

http://www.thehopewellrocks.ca/english/tidetables1.htm
Peer comment(s):

neutral nuclear : I think your references are excellent, but the suggested answer might be confusing pls see added answer|| Pls Added note (if you care :))
53 mins
your explanation (the semantic difference) is reported in the first quote here. The same expression is understood by pro's different way, as we have it with measurement units. But the system built-on stays unchanged.
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