Poll: Do you agree that poetry by ethnic-minority poets should be translated by their ethnic peers? Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
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This forum topic is for the discussion of the poll question "Do you agree that poetry by ethnic-minority poets should be translated by their ethnic peers?".
This poll was originally submitted by Muriel Vasconcellos. View the poll results »
| | | | | OK, to open a can of worms... | May 27, 2022 |
I reserve the right to remove this, and I do NOT wish to offend anyone.
I have thought about this quite a lot the last couple of years, and this is my own, personal and individual view.
Ideally, poetry should not be translated at all, because something is always lost in translation.
When it happens, the translator, whatever their ethnicity, must have a foot in each camp - and create the same images in the target reader's mind as the original poem creates for sourc... See more I reserve the right to remove this, and I do NOT wish to offend anyone.
I have thought about this quite a lot the last couple of years, and this is my own, personal and individual view.
Ideally, poetry should not be translated at all, because something is always lost in translation.
When it happens, the translator, whatever their ethnicity, must have a foot in each camp - and create the same images in the target reader's mind as the original poem creates for source-language natives.
Look at it like the target-language native discussion. Do you have a qualified ethnic peer translator who can do it?
Who can also re-create it as poetry, cultural issues and all, in the target language? Then great, that is the person who should do it.
Very often, the ideal person will not exist.
A solution may be to work with two, perhaps even more. Ask one to make a draft - to translate the meaning, with notes where necessary to analyse and explain the choice of words, expand the images, and ´discuss´ what the poem expresses. Preferably the original poet should be allowed to add comments too, but that is rarely realistic.
Then a target-language native might be able to re-create a poem that says the same to target readers.
If those of us from major ethnic groups are to be allowed to read minority poetry at all, then it has to come over to our languages sometime, somehow. Some of us at least have grown up alongside minorities, and been in situations that enable us to empathise.
We cannot change our ethnicity, but we CAN use our imaginations and empathy. It is as close as we can get, but give us a chance! ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Other: Agree with Christine | May 27, 2022 |
I have wanted to open a discussion of this topic for a long time and proposed the question more than once. I'm happy to see it appear.
Christine summarizes my views very well: I think it's nearly impossible to translate some kinds of poetry, especially when it has deep ethnic meaning. If the translator shares the same ethnic origins, their perspective is invaluable. On the other hand, poetry is best translated by another poet, regardless of ethnicity.
[Edited at 2022-05-27 ... See more I have wanted to open a discussion of this topic for a long time and proposed the question more than once. I'm happy to see it appear.
Christine summarizes my views very well: I think it's nearly impossible to translate some kinds of poetry, especially when it has deep ethnic meaning. If the translator shares the same ethnic origins, their perspective is invaluable. On the other hand, poetry is best translated by another poet, regardless of ethnicity.
[Edited at 2022-05-27 09:22 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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At first, I interpreted the question as dealing with minority/majority languages but I suppose this question has to do with the violent reactions around a project to translate the work of Amanda Gorman. I must say that in Portugal there are many books by black authors which have been translated into Portuguese by white authors and as far as I know the question “Should white writers translate a black author’s work?” was never raised.
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Most poetry is open to misunderstanding anyway whatever the ethnicity of reader and writer. We’re ALL different.
If a poet wants to be widely understood, they need to write in a way that is widely understood and easily translated.
| | | | Kay Denney 
France
Local time: 20:12
French to English
Of course not, unless their command of the other language is at native level.
I agree that input from someone with an intimate understanding of what the poem is trying to achieve (preferably the poet themselves) could be vastly useful.
Arthur Golden wrote the "Memoirs of a Geisha" from the standpoint of a geisha, despite being a white male. How presumptuous of him! Maybe it should be banned!
Throughout history, artists have projected the experience of othe... See more Of course not, unless their command of the other language is at native level.
I agree that input from someone with an intimate understanding of what the poem is trying to achieve (preferably the poet themselves) could be vastly useful.
Arthur Golden wrote the "Memoirs of a Geisha" from the standpoint of a geisha, despite being a white male. How presumptuous of him! Maybe it should be banned!
Throughout history, artists have projected the experience of others. Simone de Beauvoir wrote from the viewpoint of a man in "Tous les hommes sont mortels"... should it have been banned too?
Sean Penn portrayed Harvey Milk in the film of the same name, should the role have gone to a gay guy instead?
While I think that an actor should at least look like the person they are portraying (so Anne Boleyn should be white, and samurais should look Japanese, you can't play Gandhi with a beer belly, and 40-year-old women shouldn't be hired to play the role of someone the same age as their grandma), the whole point of acting is that you put yourself in someone else's shoes, and you work hard to make people forget that you are not that person. I remember when I was studying Lear for my A levels, it so happened that James Bolam was playing the title role at a theatre in London, so the teacher organised a trip to see the play. I'd only ever seen James Bolam as Terry in The Likely Lads, and thought it would be weird to see him as a tortured sovereign. But he did a fantastic job, and I only remembered who he was right at the end when he took his bows with a big UnLeary smile.
The best translator for ethnic minority poetry would be someone who's greatly familiar with the ethnic minority, its art and traditions and history. If they are a poet themselves, or at least if they have empathy for the culture in question and if they appreciate the poetry, it all helps. ▲ Collapse
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if the author finds worthy ethnic mate, why not?
On the other hand, in the USSR, the poetry of popular Dagestan poet Rasul Gamzatov was very successfully 'translated' (some say rewritten, recreated) by his contemporaries, popular Russian poets Rozhdestvensky, Russian-Ukrainian-Jewish Morits, etc.
| | | | Michael Newton
United States
Local time: 14:12
Japanese to English
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| Ethnic-minority poets | May 28, 2022 |
Garcia-Lorca was a homosexual yet he composed Romancero gitano, ostensibly about heterosexual love. Perhaps it would have been better had it been composed by a heterosexual. And Tolstoy, a male, wrote Anna Karenina. Should he have stayed in his lane and written only about men? The list goes on. Recently the Odyssey was translated by a female. Should she have stayed in her lane?
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Tony Keily
Local time: 20:12
Italian to English
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| Why ask a question like this? | May 30, 2022 |
It's really a non-issue and I get the impression that it's another echo of the manipulated and manufactured Amanda Gorman controversy. (There never was any exclusive requirement in that case that her translators belong to an ethnic minority, although it's interesting to speculate why this impression was so widely given.)
And what does "ethnic peers" mean? People of roughly the same physical appearance, although possibly completely unrelated culturally? In this case, would a Filipino... See more It's really a non-issue and I get the impression that it's another echo of the manipulated and manufactured Amanda Gorman controversy. (There never was any exclusive requirement in that case that her translators belong to an ethnic minority, although it's interesting to speculate why this impression was so widely given.)
And what does "ethnic peers" mean? People of roughly the same physical appearance, although possibly completely unrelated culturally? In this case, would a Filipino American get a shout-in when it came to translating Yukio Mishima in the US because they fall under the same 'Asian' census class? Would Guatemalan Americans get a head start when it comes to translating 'Latino' Julio Cortázar?
[Edited at 2022-05-30 09:20 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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