| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18] > | Moving on from freelance translation, starting a new career Thread poster: James Greenfield
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Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 11:32
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
I think most translators, apart from people that became a translator due to a career switch, have little more to offer than language knowledge (which can be valuable in other positions as well, of course) and translation skills.
I have a translation degree and have done nothing but translation until now. So if I ever will have to look for a job my options are limited to a position as an inhouse translator (the number of which I believe has significantly decreased over the years), so... See more I think most translators, apart from people that became a translator due to a career switch, have little more to offer than language knowledge (which can be valuable in other positions as well, of course) and translation skills.
I have a translation degree and have done nothing but translation until now. So if I ever will have to look for a job my options are limited to a position as an inhouse translator (the number of which I believe has significantly decreased over the years), some generic back office jobs or some easily accessible job for which no degree is required. It goes without saying that these will pay (far) less than my current income.
But I suppose a lot of people are in this situation. Most people that have followed a certain career path and want to (or have to) leave their industry, will be forced to seriously retrain themselves. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | If I were a careers advisor (heaven forfend) | Feb 23 |
or indeed just bigging myself up for a job application, I'd say things like:
- can work independently
- meets deadlines
- won't just say 'yes' to everything but will consider feasibility and negotiate (a decent manager will appreciate this)
- can follow instructions and deal with constructive feedback (he says, having had a translation butchered by a French speaker only yesterday )
- tenacious and res... See more or indeed just bigging myself up for a job application, I'd say things like:
- can work independently
- meets deadlines
- won't just say 'yes' to everything but will consider feasibility and negotiate (a decent manager will appreciate this)
- can follow instructions and deal with constructive feedback (he says, having had a translation butchered by a French speaker only yesterday )
- tenacious and resourceful (I'm sure we've all spent ages looking for the right term)
- ability to acquire and make sense of new knowledge quickly (we'll pass over forgetting it again 2 hours after the job is delivered )
- some level of understanding of the world of commerce (the paper trail, the time frames; possibly quite a lot more than that, one could probably big up "running a business" in general)
And so on. Not to mention an above-average standard of education.
Admittedly, I understand anecdotally that HR depts can be wary of people who worked for themselves for several years, because some of those plus points can be a double-edged sword from a managerial viewpoint. And there comes a point when age is probably a factor.
But IF (big if) I were to seek salaried employment (FWIW I doubt I ever will), I'd play to those kind of strengths. Not everyone out there has them, by any means. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I've been asked... | Feb 23 |
Christopher Schröder wrote:
The fact that no direct client has ever asked me for a discount for repetitions in the 20+ years since CAT came along suggests a level of ignorance or inertia that could also serve us well in the coming years.
Several times.
| | | | P.L.F. Persio 
Netherlands
Local time: 11:32
Member (2010)
English to Italian
+ ...
| @Chris: don't sell yourself short | Feb 23 |
Christopher Schröder wrote:
I've been thinking overnight about transferable skills and decided that, even as a writer, I actually have little to offer.
Get out of town!
After 30 years of rewriting what other people have already written, I find it hard to formulate structured arguments of my own (as you will have noticed!).
Well, that makes you, me, and other 8 billions people. It is supposed to be hard.
That rules out content creation and journalism, and copywriting unless there is a very clear brief.
In content creation and copywriting, briefs are clear and detailed, and there's a lot of going back and forth during editing.
I master only two registers: business English and simplified English. Unlike the late, great Mervyn, I couldn't write pastiches of different authors. I couldn't write in the language of young people.
If you master two registers, you can quickly learn to master another couple of them, you're that smart.
I still maintain that your micro Cockney story was way better than anything Mervyn (why "late", though?) had ever produced. I've been known to go back on the Frivolous thread, in order to delight in it time and again.
I've specialised to the point where I'm very much a one-trick pony.
But what a trick that is! And what a thoroughbred you are!
That's not to say these things can't be learned. But the prospect of starting again at entry/intern level is far from appealing.
You're right. But I think you've got what it takes to write professionally, it would be worth trying it.
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| More transferable skills | Feb 23 |
Charlie wrote:
If I were a careers advisor
Good list! Perhaps we should all add some more. I propose:
Saintly patience in the face of extreme idiocy. Part 1: Clients. Part 2: Colleagues.
P.L.F. Persio wrote:
don't sell yourself short
I really wasn't fishing for compliments but thanks for your kind words Portia. I kinda knew you wouldn't be able to help yourself.
I'd completely forgotten my birth story and the bad sign gag. The things we could get away with posting back then!
I will have to revisit your lady of mystery chronicles...
| | | | P.L.F. Persio
Netherlands
Local time: 11:32
Member (2010)
English to Italian
+ ...
| | Something to think about... | Feb 23 |
Sarah Elizabeth wrote:
I haven't posted on Proz for quite some time now, but have been following this and other discussions closely.
At the risk of seeming blunt, I think what it comes down to is that no one is owed work. And no one has a 'right' to be a translator. I've been working as a freelance translator in Italy since 2010 and at two points early in my career (!) I found myself being taken advantage of. In both cases, the client had become my main one and it was scary to realize that I needed to get myself out of the situation without losing needed income. It felt like a catch-22. On top of that, I was living in a Calabrian village and 'going out and getting a job' would have required relocating rather than just going into town. It was hard and I needed to work a lot of long days and weekends, but I got myself out of both situations, lessons learned. Point being that I fail to understand the view that translators are somehow owed good conditions. I would think that it is up to us to refuse to accept exploitation, and if that's all we are offered, to go do something else.
Sarah, your experience of overcoming exploitation is distressing and inspiring. But it is precisely why the assertion that everyone deserves a decent life and basic shelter is a principle that should resonate universally.
Can anyone truly disagree on such a universal truth?
Historically, the unchecked rise of capitalism saw the working class endure grueling hours under harsh conditions simply to afford basic necessities. It was only through collective action and the resilience of these workers that we saw the introduction of laws and norms aimed at protecting workers and improving the quality of life for many. This progress, although significant, remains precarious and incomplete.
In this context, the notion that no one is inherently "owed" a specific job, such as being a translator, is understandable. But we must distinguish between the right to a particular profession and the right to humane working conditions within that profession. The latter is not a privilege, but a fundamental human right that transcends all occupations. Good working conditions shouldn't be a luxury for the few but a universal standard, embodying our collective commitment to dignity, fairness, and respect in all workplaces.
Unity, even if precarious, tends to elevate the conditions for the entire group, leading to broader improvements that benefit us all. It's a reminder that our collective welfare hinges not just on individual success but on our shared efforts to uplift every member of our community.
As automation extends its reach into even the most creative domains, the principle of collective welfare over individualistic survival becomes increasingly critical. It's not just translators who face the threat of being made obsolete by technology; many professions could find themselves unexpectedly automated, making it difficult to even adapt to such rapid changes, which is why a unified approach is needed. If we are not careful, the most extreme scenarios where selfishness prevails over solidarity could spell doom for humanity.
[Edited at 2024-02-23 16:41 GMT]
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:32
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| It always starts with good intentions | Feb 23 |
Wolfie Smith wrote:
Historically, the unchecked rise of capitalism
Good morning everybody. With the first phase of our movement having proceeded so successfully, and the more prominent running dogs of capitalism having fled overseas, we must now continue our discussions on how to fix, I beg your pardon, correct the market.
I am grateful to Citizen Smith for the original idea of overriding the oppressive mechanism of market pricing and setting prices directly ourselves. It seems so simple and yet at the same time so elegant, one wonders why nobody ever thought of it before.
As you know, we have gone down the route of forming a committee of clever and independent people of unimpeachable character, such as my brother-in-law, and my neighbour, to decide such things. In fact, we have formed many such committees, so many that coordination is actually becoming something of an issue. It seems to me that we should have one organization in the middle to control it all. What should we call it? Perhaps something like the "Central Committee"? I think it has a nice ring to it.
I see someone has raised their hand. A little louder please. Who picked the individuals who sit on the committees that decide the prices of the things that the people need to buy? That is an excellent question, and I and my friends actually thought about this in some detail, and our conclusion --- I'm sorry I didn't hear that, you'll have to repeat it.
Did you say "democratic"? Ah, well, unfortunately democracy is a very slow way to go about things, you know, and even more unfortunately many people who vote have the wrong ideas. You can explain how things should be until you're blue in the face, but many of the so-called electorate will still disagree with you.
It is indeed amazing, I agree wholeheartedly, and quite unacceptable. Our conclusion is therefore ---
No need to apologize, I should have explained. "Our" in this case means myself and my hard-working comrades, who have selflessly agreed to commit themselves to the cause. It is solely on such men of --- a thousand pardons Glenda, men and women of resolution on whom we must rely.
It is vital that we are led by people who can act decisively and who, in pursuit of a better omelette of which all can partake rather than only the fat cats of yore, are not afraid to break a few eggs.
What will the price of eggs be? Well, just as soon as the Egg Committee comes back to the Central Committee with its draft report, which will take no more than two weeks on the outside, after we have nationalised, surveyed, and put a production plan in place for all the egg farms in the country, I will let you know.
What do you mean, it's a pity about the butter in which to fry the omelette? I think you must be mistaken; there is no shortage of cows. Why, just a week ago from the window of my villa, I saw a huge herd of them being driven somewhere ---
Really? Is that so? That would explain why my wife was complaining about not having milk for her tea this morning. Well, if our comrades in the shoe committee did, as you allege, requisition 30% of the population of dairy cows for leather last week, I'm sure there was a very good reason for that.
No, I don't mean the fact that they get paid according to the number of shoes that produce, obviously that can have no bearing on the matter.
That is an unhelpful suggestion, comrade. Nobody here is proposing that we eat the "shoe mountain" instead of omelettes, and I must ask you not to use that term. The shoe production committee will doubtless over time get better at planning their output in response to changes in demand. If anybody can think of some kind of system that would help them achieve this, I am sure they would welcome any suggestions. Some kind of, I don't know, some kind of mechanism that signals to them what things are needed and how many of each.
What do you mean, hasn't this whole movement thing been done before? I must say, comrade, I dislike the levity of your tone. Oh, you mean that country. No, that was not the same thing at all. They made a few mistakes, and of course they suffered from traitors from within who doubted the power of centralized planning informed by the latest technology, but I promise you this time will be different. We just need to do it properly.
Anyway, we have a great deal to do, so rather than allowing ourselves to get lost in a morass of pettifogging detail, let us keep the big picture in mind: a society of fairness and equity for all! If anybody has further questions feel free to ask me.
When? Well, I --- On the bus back? Ah, regrettably, we will not be able to join you on the bus. Due to our very busy schedules it has become necessary for us to use, much against our will, a vehicle. No, not a truck, my friend. Yes, a car. It is absolutely not a limousine! It is simply a large, black car. Is that what you think? Really. Shall I tell you what I think? I think "luxurious" is a very subjective concept, especially for those who are perhaps not as knowledgeable about the movement as myself and its other leaders.
Anyway, good day to you all.
One moment if you please, the comrade with all the, ah, interesting questions - yes, you. I didn't catch your name. Thank you. And your address? Thank you. No, no, no reason, just idle curiosity. Are you usually in of an evening, comrade? Excellent, excellent. Well, I do hope we will have the opportunity to speak again soon. Good day.
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| Deciding what to accept ... or not | Feb 23 |
Carlos A R de Souza wrote:
various
Well gosh, I think 'overcoming exploitation' is a bit overstating it. In both cases, I realised once I was in the thick of it that I was being taken advantage of and so I stopped working for them. I needed to build up my client base before cutting off ties, so there was a stressful period of hustle and overlap, but I did it and then that was that. I have stayed away from that kind of client ever since.
And you know what? One of the agencies went out of business. Because no one would work for them. Freelancers refused. And this was not even a low or slow payer. (What they were was dishonest and very aggressive, with impossible deadlines.)
As for the other one? Well, talking to other translators, I found out that they were on 'everyone's' blacklist. And some time later they were no longer able to work in their niche area -- because people wouldn't work for them. Because of their unacceptable practices.
If we don't work for them, they won't survive. 🤷♀️
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Sarah Elizabeth wrote:
As for the other one? Well, talking to other translators, I found out that they were on 'everyone's' blacklist.... If we don't work for them, they won't survive. 🤷♀️
Exactly, that's what I've been saying! Talk to each other, inform colleagues about bad practices. As far as those who say "that's not my experience", well, snow happens even if a colleague in the Greek islands never saw it.
I was once in a group email list of a project manager who asked for an impossible deadline, and all translators started emailing with each other except the PM. At the end, I was the only one who "raised my voice" to the PM. And the deadline changed.
As far as "unionization" it's nonsense - it doesn't work (but it does invite the government in our lives).
Btw, I don't know, is there a Forum Category with "Bad practices etc." at Proz?
| | | | | Interesting satire. | Feb 23 |
Dan Lucas wrote: Wolfie Smith wrote:
Historically, the unchecked rise of capitalism (...)
I appreciate the effort you've put into crafting a theatrical response to highlight concerns about regulation and economic planning. But it's important that we address its underlying assumptions and misconceptions about unfettered capitalism.
Your satire central planning and marketing correction exaggerates a lingering concern about overregulation and the pitfalls of historical attempts at central economic planning. While humorous, it sidesteps the genuine need for a nuanced approach to economic fairness and workers' rights in the modern economy.
The suggestion that any attempt to ensure basic rights and fair working conditions will necessarily lead to bureaucracy and inefficiency is a false dichotomy. Advocating for workers' rights and humane working conditions does not equate to endorsing extreme forms of central planning or the complete abolition of healthy market mechanisms for price discovery.
What we really want is about finding a balance that ensures the economy works for everyone, not just a privileged few.
Portraying advocates for social justice and fair labor practices as authoritarian simplifies and misrepresents the intentions behind these movements. Advocates are not against democracy or its processes; rather, they seek to make them fairer, ensuring that a diversity of voices and needs shapes our societal norms and policies.
The challenge lies in improving our democratic processes, not dismissing them.
But your satire also touches on a real concern: the need for adaptability and responsiveness in economic planning. The "mechanism" you jest about at the end, signaling what goods are needed and in what quantity, already exists—it's called the market. However, markets, left unchecked, can lead to inequalities and inefficiencies that harm society. The goal should be to harness the strengths of market mechanisms while ensuring they are guided by ethical considerations and social welfare goals.
The mention of a "society of fairness and equity for all" as the big picture goal is something we should indeed keep in mind, albeit without the sarcasm. The pursuit of this goal doesn't necessitate the abandonment of all market principles, nor does it require an authoritarian regime. It calls for thoughtful policies that promote social welfare, protect workers, and ensure economic activities contribute positively to society.
[Edited at 2024-02-23 19:12 GMT]
| | | | | Nothing to do with it | Feb 23 |
Carlos A R de Souza wrote:
Historically, the unchecked rise of capitalism
Our job has nothing to do with capitalism/socialism. It has to with negotiations.
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| Standing together is not necessarily unionizing. | Feb 23 |
Lefteris Kritikakis wrote:
As far as "unionization" it's nonsense - it doesn't work (but it does invite the government in our lives).
I'd like to highlight that while unionizing is a valuable tool in our arsenal, it's not the only strategy at our disposal. Platforms like Proz.com's Blueboard, the mentorship from experienced professionals, and the active exchange of information among translators about their clients serve as additional resources. Together, these methods have been instrumental in diminishing price asymmetry by enhancing transparency regarding hirers.
| | | | | Yes, an extended Blueboard | Feb 23 |
Carlos A R de Souza wrote:
Platforms like Proz.com's Blueboard
An extended Blueboard, to include bad practices. But in the form of a forum - you won't need to add a bad company's name, only the bad practice itself. Because some bad practices of particular PMs don't reflect the entire company.
| | | | Maryna Titova
Poland
Local time: 11:32
Member (Jan 2024)
English to Ukrainian
+ ...
| Looking for feedback | Feb 24 |
Hi Denis,
I'd like to ask for your feedback on Karon Thackston's course? I'm planning to learn content writing so looking for real opinions.
Thanks in advance!
Denis Danchenko wrote: Christopher Schröder wrote:
One thing I noticed when looking into getting more copywriting work was that everyone wants you to write for SEO, which basically means blathering on in an irritatingly verbose and repetitive way to work in various key words and set phrases way more often than would be natural.
I used to do commercial SEO copywriting after completing the course by Karon Thackston, and I can completely relate.
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