| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | Law degree wise investment for prospective legal translator? Thread poster: travcurrit
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| Hi, Travcurrit. | Oct 12, 2012 |
Yes, you are right -- most legal translators have some kind of legal education and law firm experience. Not too many that I know are lawyers. Theoretically speaking, yes -- legal translators could repay $40,000 student loans, nevertheless why would anyone want to be a legal translator when it is easier to be a lawyer, and it may also pay more -- in the United States at least. Many legal translators I know took some paralegal university courses, some legal writing courses, and have worked in law ... See more Yes, you are right -- most legal translators have some kind of legal education and law firm experience. Not too many that I know are lawyers. Theoretically speaking, yes -- legal translators could repay $40,000 student loans, nevertheless why would anyone want to be a legal translator when it is easier to be a lawyer, and it may also pay more -- in the United States at least. Many legal translators I know took some paralegal university courses, some legal writing courses, and have worked in law firms for some time. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Kay Denney 
France
Local time: 17:17
French to English
| come again?? | Oct 13, 2012 |
LilianBoland wrote:
why would anyone want to be a legal translator when it is easier to be a lawyer, and it may also pay more
Mind-boggling stuff this!!!
How much are you making, Liliana, that you consider your income comparable to that of a lawyer?
And how many lawyers do you know who find their job a total breeze????
| | | | | I am not sure what exactly you have in mind, but never mind. | Oct 13, 2012 |
Translators can make anywhere between $0 and $500,000 a year (without hitting the Lotto). It depends who you work for, but not everything is just about money, at least to me.
Lawyers can make between $0 and millions of dollars. I said on average a lawyer makes more money than a legal translator, and it is also easier to be a lawyer than a good legal translator, which is like being a lawyer in two different legal systems, with all the terms in two, or more languages.
... See more Translators can make anywhere between $0 and $500,000 a year (without hitting the Lotto). It depends who you work for, but not everything is just about money, at least to me.
Lawyers can make between $0 and millions of dollars. I said on average a lawyer makes more money than a legal translator, and it is also easier to be a lawyer than a good legal translator, which is like being a lawyer in two different legal systems, with all the terms in two, or more languages.
How many lawyers I know -- many. I have been surrounded by lawyers, linguists and artists most of my life, so I really know quite a few. (definitely more than a hundred) ▲ Collapse
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 17:17
French to English
| curiouser and curiouser | Oct 15, 2012 |
LilianBoland wrote:
Translators can make anywhere between $0 and $500,000 a year (without hitting the Lotto). It depends who you work for, but not everything is just about money, at least to me.
Lawyers can make between $0 and millions of dollars. I said on average a lawyer makes more money than a legal translator, and it is also easier to be a lawyer than a good legal translator, which is like being a lawyer in two different legal systems, with all the terms in two, or more languages.
How many lawyers I know -- many. I have been surrounded by lawyers, linguists and artists most of my life, so I really know quite a few. (definitely more than a hundred)
I didn't ask you how many lawyers you know, but how many lawyers you know "who find their job a total breeze????"
I'm sorry, it's not because we work in two languages that translating a document is twice as hard as writing it monolingually in the first place. The lawyer has to think through the implications of every clause, check that each clause is consistent with the rest of the document, with the law of the land, make sure that what is written is what is actually meant and cannot be twisted into some other meaning etc etc
I mean, it is a bit more complicated than, like, translating, innit?
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| Oh that. All the lawyers I know are practicing lawyers -- not incognito. | Oct 15, 2012 |
The people I know fortunately have jobs -- I don't know that much about young lawyers who just passed their Bar Exams. It is harder, or perhaps even very hard, for smaller firm these days,--this is true, but the crisis has also affected the translation industry.
Yes, of course lawyers have to do a lot of analyzing, appearing in court, and things like that -- they aren't just studying, or later using, the legal language. Still, I think their job might be easier. I am actually convinc... See more The people I know fortunately have jobs -- I don't know that much about young lawyers who just passed their Bar Exams. It is harder, or perhaps even very hard, for smaller firm these days,--this is true, but the crisis has also affected the translation industry.
Yes, of course lawyers have to do a lot of analyzing, appearing in court, and things like that -- they aren't just studying, or later using, the legal language. Still, I think their job might be easier. I am actually convinced it is. It is lacking, though, many pleasures the translation profession brings. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tatty
Local time: 17:17
Spanish to English
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| Law degree not essential but | Oct 16, 2012 |
I would definitely recommend undertaking a law degree if you want to translate legal documents. I believe that in the future holding a law degree or equivalent will be a prerequisite for translating legal documents. How useful is a legal translation performed by a non-specialist? I reckon that being on the receiving end could be a very confusing experience.
Naturally it costs lots of money and is very time consuming but you need to train for any job you want to do. Contract law is d... See more I would definitely recommend undertaking a law degree if you want to translate legal documents. I believe that in the future holding a law degree or equivalent will be a prerequisite for translating legal documents. How useful is a legal translation performed by a non-specialist? I reckon that being on the receiving end could be a very confusing experience.
Naturally it costs lots of money and is very time consuming but you need to train for any job you want to do. Contract law is definitely very important, essential I would say, and I would start with it. In the UK we can do modules from the law degree by distance learning. Surely something like that exists in the States. Wouldn't your studies be tax-deductible anyway...
Reading legal texts books is a waste of time, or attempting to read them I should say, since they are difficult. Your distance learning course will tell you exactly which bits you need to read. Without this guidance, you'll either not understand at all or get the wrong end of the stick.
Being a lawyer must be at least 100 more difficult than translating legal documents. You only have to look at their training to know that. Legal translators only usually do the theoretical part of the training process to become a lawyer. If you could become a lawyer that would be excellent. As you have said yourself, it's far more lucrative, more varied, and plainly more interesting than staying indoors translating. In the UK only the high-flyers manage to become lawyers, contacts certainly don't hurt either. This is because you need to persuade a law firm to give you a training contract, and only the law firms that have signed up the Law Society's programme to train lawyers can do so.
HTH ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: Tahira Rafiq asked to delete the post. | Jeff Whittaker
United States
Local time: 11:17
Spanish to English
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As a legal translator, you will often have to translate between two different legal systems (such as common law and civil law). A law degree in one country will not teach you how to understand and translate the law of a different country. You would need a law degree or experience practicing law in both countries and/or a degree in comparative law.
It is true that some legal translators have a law degree. It is also true that it is easier to get a law degree in some countries becau... See more As a legal translator, you will often have to translate between two different legal systems (such as common law and civil law). A law degree in one country will not teach you how to understand and translate the law of a different country. You would need a law degree or experience practicing law in both countries and/or a degree in comparative law.
It is true that some legal translators have a law degree. It is also true that it is easier to get a law degree in some countries because you do not have to go to college for four years before starting law school. In the United States, it takes at least six years to get a law degree (undergraduate plus graduate school) and the cost probably outweighs any perceived added value to potential customers.
If you already have a law degree and for some reason or other, you find yourself translating, then great. However, I would not invest the time and money going to law school if my intention was to translate.
I do recommend A LOT of self study. I have read thousands of articles and hundreds of law and legal translation books and studied vocabulary in multiple languages. In short, you will get way more benefit for your time and money and increase your ability to translate through intensive self study and experience than you would through any course. Unfortunately, there are no certificates or degrees for this.
I have found a paralegal school where I live that would qualify me to take the certification test. The cost of the course is under $2,000, but I cannot see how this would be any added benefit to my business. (Not to mention that in some states, attorneys have been successful in passing legislation prohibiting independent paralegals from calling themselves paralegals - you must advertise your services as a "non-lawyer" which does not exactly sound impressive on a resume.) ▲ Collapse
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Tatty
Local time: 17:17
Spanish to English
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| Opinions, opinions | Oct 16, 2012 |
People can only really see the world through their eyes based on their own experience.
I'm sure that if a person had undertaken formal law studies they is no way they would say that they could have acquired the same knowledge from self study. You would have to be at least Einstein to work it all out by yourself. Law is intricate. Concepts overlap.
At least in the UK, we learn a certain amount about the civil law. Authors comment on the Scots, German and French civil law... See more People can only really see the world through their eyes based on their own experience.
I'm sure that if a person had undertaken formal law studies they is no way they would say that they could have acquired the same knowledge from self study. You would have to be at least Einstein to work it all out by yourself. Law is intricate. Concepts overlap.
At least in the UK, we learn a certain amount about the civil law. Authors comment on the Scots, German and French civil law concepts. And anyway you will find that all the concepts are pretty much the same, the civil system just places more emphasis on some aspects than the common law system does. The pieces of the jigsaw tend to be the same. Even if a concept is different, because you are familiar with it in one law system the differences become apparent just by reading the definition of the civil law concept.
You'll find that when you come up against litigation for instance, you'll be wondering how you would have ever done the translation without your law studies.
Have you ever compared the different language versions of EU case law? The translations in my combinations at least, are faultless, I believe. You know just by reading a snippet that the translator is legally qualified.
You can do single modules through the University of London. There is also a college for legal executives that offers the same course, but I can't remember what it is called. ▲ Collapse
| | | | travcurrit
Local time: 17:17
Polish to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Thanks for the info | Oct 16, 2012 |
It has been interesting to see this thread revived! It seems to be a lively question of interest to the general community of current and prospective legal translators, so I'll leave my personal bits aside (MonaGer, expect a PM soon asking for more info on the Warsaw program and PL-EN legal translation in Poland) and thank you all for your interesting input.
To enter back into an intriguing discussion, though, I felt the need to emphasize, for non-Americans who might have known it, t... See more It has been interesting to see this thread revived! It seems to be a lively question of interest to the general community of current and prospective legal translators, so I'll leave my personal bits aside (MonaGer, expect a PM soon asking for more info on the Warsaw program and PL-EN legal translation in Poland) and thank you all for your interesting input.
To enter back into an intriguing discussion, though, I felt the need to emphasize, for non-Americans who might have known it, that law school in the US is really expensive. Here's one of the first links I found after a quick Google search - the minimum average 3 year cost (on top of a 4 year degree) seems to be over $100,000. Here's a look at what it would mean to pay off this kind of loan; it would require a minimum salary of $125,000 / year for a household of 4 (or half as much with an extended 30 year term).
Somehow I have a hard time believing the value-added for a translator is worth that kind of debt burden, although I'd love to be wrong (I would like to live in a world where translators make as much as lawyers).
I wonder, what are the benefits and difficulties for Yanks in pursuing some kind of UK-based legal studies (which are not as cheap as they might have once been either, 4-12000 pounds a year last I checked)? I imagine it would not be so useful for translating into US English, but the bulk of the work involving European languages seems to be for translation into UK English anyways... ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tatty
Local time: 17:17
Spanish to English
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| Crazy prices | Oct 17, 2012 |
A module through the Uni of London (International programmes) costs about 600 pounds, you have a year to do it in and that includes the exam, it may even be less I just can't remember. I never actually paid for the course as in Spain it is a tax-deductible cost. However, I had to take time out to study for it, which is where you lose money. They have exam centres throughout the world. If there isn't one near you, you can make arrangements to take your exam at a centre, in exchange for a fee of c... See more A module through the Uni of London (International programmes) costs about 600 pounds, you have a year to do it in and that includes the exam, it may even be less I just can't remember. I never actually paid for the course as in Spain it is a tax-deductible cost. However, I had to take time out to study for it, which is where you lose money. They have exam centres throughout the world. If there isn't one near you, you can make arrangements to take your exam at a centre, in exchange for a fee of course. However you will need a first degree to be eligible to apply for the course. You also have to make a case for yourself as a distance-learning student.
At the Uni of London you can also train for the American bar exams, I don't know how that works though.
Legal translating courses teach you how to structure your legal sentences more than anything. They may take a cursory look at legal vocabulary but even if the teacher is a lawyer, they can't possibly explain to you all the theory behind why they chose one word over another. You just have to take it at face value.
Good luck to you! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jeff Whittaker
United States
Local time: 11:17
Spanish to English
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| Specialization | Oct 24, 2012 |
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ningyicai
Local time: 23:17
Chinese to English
| Such things are rare. | Oct 24, 2012 |
Only in rare cases does a laywer choose the translation profession.
| | | | Piotrnikitin
Serbia
Local time: 17:17
Russian to English
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| Legal translators need legal training | Dec 28, 2012 |
My view is that if you want to translate legal documents of any complexity you need to have some kind of formal legal training.
I am currently a practicing international lawyer, and you have no idea how much of client time and money is wasted trying to work the way through translations performed by people who "picked it up along the way". Sure, if your legal translation is limited to simple contracts, birth certificates and driving licences, there is no need for you to study law. B... See more My view is that if you want to translate legal documents of any complexity you need to have some kind of formal legal training.
I am currently a practicing international lawyer, and you have no idea how much of client time and money is wasted trying to work the way through translations performed by people who "picked it up along the way". Sure, if your legal translation is limited to simple contracts, birth certificates and driving licences, there is no need for you to study law. But if you undertake the translation of complex legal documents for use in litigation or arbitration, you must, first and foremost, understand their content. Most translators feel up to the task because a lot of the terminology is on the internet. So is the terminology of nuclear physics, or any other specialist field for that matter. Does not mean that you can understand complex texts in those fields. And if you can't understand them, with due respect, how can you translate them properly?
Agree that a full-fledged law degree is overkill, but make sure you follow as many courses as you can, perhaps as a free listener, or through webinars. Buy and read as many book as you can on comparative law. Make friends with qualified lawyers and consult them. Of course, an ideal solution would be a masters in Legal Translation: hopefully, one school or other will soon see the demand for that.
P.S. Believe me, there are many advantages to a career of translator when compared to that of a lawyer. Money is not one of them, but there are. I am myself planning to change careers at some point, especially since there seems to be demand for good quality legal translation, which is missing BIGTIME in the current legal world. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Same here, but would like to use a sledge hammer on the nut... | Dec 28, 2012 |
I agree with what's already been said. I started as an interpreter for a couple large financial institutions where I learned to read and translate contracts, from there I moved to immigration documents (which came in extremely useful for getting my wife's visa and now green card, since I can translate all the documents myself).
I am currently enrolled at my local college in a business management program, which will focus on international business and law once I move to my four year... See more I agree with what's already been said. I started as an interpreter for a couple large financial institutions where I learned to read and translate contracts, from there I moved to immigration documents (which came in extremely useful for getting my wife's visa and now green card, since I can translate all the documents myself).
I am currently enrolled at my local college in a business management program, which will focus on international business and law once I move to my four year university. I would eventually like to get a full fledged degree in law, as I think that for my business and translation work, it would be invaluable. Not to mention that having the additional knowledge and resources would be a great asset for my business.
The classes that I have taken so far have been very valuable to me, so if nothing else, take them as electives, pell grants can cover most, if not all, of the tuition if you keep yourself local.
I love translating, and even though I could probably make more money doing something else, I know where I want to be, and I want to be the best at it. ▲ Collapse
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