| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | Law degree wise investment for prospective legal translator? Thread poster: travcurrit
|
|---|
Suzanne Deliscar 
Canada
Local time: 05:32
Member (2009)
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Lawyer-Linguist Virtual Event Recorded Sessions | Dec 29, 2012 |
I have been following this thread with interest. Some of you may be aware of, or even attended the Lawyer-Linguist Virtual Event that was held on this site on December 13, 2012. All of the speakers and panelists were lawyer-linguists, and the issue of whether a law degree was essential for the training of a legal translator was discussed several times. If interested, the recorded sessions can be a... See more I have been following this thread with interest. Some of you may be aware of, or even attended the Lawyer-Linguist Virtual Event that was held on this site on December 13, 2012. All of the speakers and panelists were lawyer-linguists, and the issue of whether a law degree was essential for the training of a legal translator was discussed several times. If interested, the recorded sessions can be accessed at this link: http://www.proz.com/virtual-conferences/442/program. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Liviu-Lee Roth
United States
Local time: 05:32
Romanian to English
+ ...
| A law degree doesn't make you a "super-qualified" translator | Dec 29, 2012 |
[quote]Piotrnikitin wrote:
My view is that if you want to translate legal documents of any complexity you need to have some kind of formal legal training.
Just like Piotr, I graduated from a 4-year law school in Europe and practiced criminal law for almost 12 years. I have been a legal translator in the US for over 16 years, but believe me, I don't feel comfortable translating any legal document unless it is in the criminal field. It may sound weird, but I know many American lawyers that are very specialized in their field, but totally ignorant in other legal fields.
As many of my colleagues pointed out, it is paramount to understand the legal concepts in your field, to find your niche and get trained in your field. I don't believe that a trained legal translator can do a perfect job in all the legal fields (contracts, criminal, family, intellectual property etc.), and quite frequently I come across legal documents translated into English that do not reflect the legal concept of the source document.
Therefore, my point is, get good legal training in your field of law, be it civil, contracts, immigration, penal etc.
[Edited at 2012-12-29 04:37 GMT]
| | | | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: Empty post | Timote Suladze
Russian Federation
Local time: 13:32
Italian to Russian
+ ...
| Legal education | Dec 29, 2012 |
Jeff Whittaker wrote:
As a legal translator, you will often have to translate between two different legal systems (such as common law and civil law). A law degree in one country will not teach you how to understand and translate the law of a different country. You would need a law degree or experience practicing law in both countries and/or a degree in comparative law.
Also a legal translator will often have to translate between a legislation or any other legal document (court decisions, contracts, articles of association etc.) of two different countries with the same legal system, like in my case Russia and Italy.
As for discussed question I think that a legal education for a legal translator is an essential advantage.
| | |
|
|
|
| I have a law degree too | Dec 30, 2012 |
David Wright wrote:
and studied law cos I found it interesting, but never intended to be a lawyer (the image of a vampire just keeps coming into my mind, no idea why...). I then taught EFL for many years until I was asked to translate legal texts for a work colleague and discovered that it was an activity that I liked and the fact that I had studied law meant I actually understood what it was all about - more or less. But of course my studies were taken at a time when students studied what they were interested in and not necessarily what would give them a job - and we had grants and tuition fees were paid for us. Known as the golden age.
I quote the message of David, because I also have a law degree (from Austria too) but in my case, I've been practicing as a lawyer in Italy for 12 years full time and translating since 2005, part-time.
Since the beginning I got German and English speaking clients, so translations were big part of my daily routine.
Before I began to study law in Austria, I attended, for a short time, the translation school in Munich.
I can tell you that most of the translation students there visited at least some courses of the law school too.
I decided to go to the law school instead of attending the translation school, because I was feeling that I was seeking more to become a lawyer than a translator.
This decision made me a lawyer but not yet a translator, since I missed, on the other side, the technical skill to to translate.
As fate would have it, now I'm in the US and I'm working as a translator only.
You need both legal and translation training.
You need to understand what you're translating and you need to let the addressee of your work feel he/she is reading a text written in his/her language.
Bear in mind that a legal term in English, for example, can have several different translation but what they ask you is to be able to reprice the (original) concept.
I see that Suzanne Deliscar posted too, I can say her webinars are very good and very interesting.
Good luck for your career.
| | | | OG Pete
United States
Russian to English
+ ...
I understood that the question was, "[Is a US] Law degree wise investment for prospective [or current] legal translator?" I am seriously interested in whether or not you all are serious. All the best!
| | | | Suzanne Deliscar
Canada
Local time: 05:32
Member (2009)
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Lawyer-Linguists Forum LinkedIn Group | Dec 31, 2012 |
Hello Alessandra,
Thank you for your kind comments.
We discuss these issues at length in the Lawyer-Linguists Forum LinkedIn Group: http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=1855870&trk=hb_side_g.
I like what Piotr Nikitin says about why a lawyer may choose to transition to being a translator. I find it interesting that so many people who are not ... See more Hello Alessandra,
Thank you for your kind comments.
We discuss these issues at length in the Lawyer-Linguists Forum LinkedIn Group: http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=1855870&trk=hb_side_g.
I like what Piotr Nikitin says about why a lawyer may choose to transition to being a translator. I find it interesting that so many people who are not lawyers seem to "know" why lawyer-linguists do what they do. In my case, I studied languages most of my life, including as an undergraduate, and then went to law school. I always wanted law and languages to be interwoven in my vocation, and they are. I am licensed to practice law, and actively do so, as well as provide language services. I know a number of lawyers who do the same, and there are also those who have a law degree, but don't practice anymore, or never have, but use their combined law and language skills to provide legal translation. I say, "to each his own". Careers transition all the time, and some professionals choose to combine their skill sets to create a career that they love and truly defines them. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Adrian MM. (X)
Local time: 11:32
French to English
+ ...
| Possible tax deductibility if studying part-time/law degree not enough | Jan 1, 2013 |
Tatty wrote:
......
Being a lawyer must be at least 100 more difficult than translating legal documents.
HTH
A few quick points:
1. Being a lawyer - or judge - specializ/sing, say in one narrow field, is IMO not 100 times a harder, though may be better paid, than translating generally a wide range of legal documents which can diversify into arcane or new and fast-changing areas, whilst I quite understand Lee Roth's discomfort translating in any area going outside the criminal law. Problem is offering - esp. in an LLD: not a Doctor of Laws, but a language of limited diffusion - only one area of law for translating and interpreting purposes.
A retired President of the Admiralty, Probate and Family Division of the London High Court - an ex-Barrister and former school teacher of classics and foreign languages in England - once confided to me that legal translation and court interpreting were the two hardest legal skills to master.
2. The cost of studying part-time for a law degree - and spreading over a longish period - might be tax-deductible in the US. It IS in the UK and is deducted from translation and interpreting earnings, as being for training and education purposes. Contact the IRS or your accountant. Anway, your time needs to be cut out and well organis/zed to fit in a part-time law degree and/or Bar Finals, whilst continuing to work, and end up with *little or no* debt.
3. An academic law degree might not be enough as an advertisement unless, as in Spain and Mexico/a University in the North of England, it is a right-through qualifying lawyer's credential.
That is not to say that a law graduate with a foreign language will have no problem of recognition and identification with terms from a foreign legal system.
4. With increasing demand and competition for paper qualifications, some private and agency clients also want translators and interpreters with a qualification as a lawyer and preferably with practical experience, namely a vocational stint: traineeship in a law practic/se or internship with a US judge etc. There are also jargon terms used in actual practice that cannot be found in dictionaries and, if bells start ringing, can be drawn on when facing certain processes and procedures.
5. The range of law in any one legal system in the civilis/zed world is too vast to pick up on a legal translation or court interpreting course or 'on the way', unless legal research skills and e.g. English legal drafting terms - which do not Google well or at all - have also been learned and honed. So it is wise to be forearmed.
Conclusion: though I may appear to be endorsing a law degree, there is nothing quite like hands-on practical experience in a legal, notarial or related e.g. accountancy, banking or insurance field, whilst legal practitioners with an active practic/se who double as legal translators and interpreters have the 'best' of both cross-fertilis/zed worlds.
[Edited at 2013-01-01 18:16 GMT]
| | |
|
|
|
I think it will pay back in economic terms visibly enough, attracting more clients and justifying a rate increase. A law degree does make a difference in the law translation bracket, and law degrees are respectable in general. Law is also good to know when you have to deal with ethical rules, contracts with clients or agencies, ToSes, translator associations and other such professional activities other than your actual translation work. A legal degree on the letterhead or in the CV probably dete... See more I think it will pay back in economic terms visibly enough, attracting more clients and justifying a rate increase. A law degree does make a difference in the law translation bracket, and law degrees are respectable in general. Law is also good to know when you have to deal with ethical rules, contracts with clients or agencies, ToSes, translator associations and other such professional activities other than your actual translation work. A legal degree on the letterhead or in the CV probably deters non-payers and frivolous plaintiffs to some extent. Besides, there are so many synergies between language studies and legal studies (which are really a subtype of the former). Can't go wrong with a law degree unless they're seriously overcharging. An LLM or LLD (or legal Ph.D.) programme might accept holders of equivalent degrees without an actual previous law degree and the three letters can't be mistaken for anything else, they say more than a thousand words, as does an American JD.
In some jurisdictions you can even take the bar exam or otherwise qualify as a lawyer without necessarily having a law degree, for example solicitors in the UK can qualify without formally having a law degree, as long as they manage to pass professional exams and other requirements. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Well, it might be reasonable, an even interesting to get a law degree, and concentrate on translatio | Mar 28, 2013 |
yet the rates would gave to be then close to $0.50-1/word to make the hourly rate close to the rate that lawyers charge. Otherwise just being a lawyer may also be very interesting, and perhaps easier, sometimes.
| | | |
LilianBoland wrote:
yet the rates would gave to be then close to $0.50-1/word to make the hourly rate close to the rate that lawyers charge. Otherwise just being a lawyer may also be very interesting, and perhaps easier, sometimes.
Associate hourly rate isn't really a problem but once it gets to partner levels, it can become tricky. I can't imagine a translator getting $500 per hour, while some lawyers charge way more.
| | | | TimWindhof (X)
United States
Local time: 05:32
English to German
| Simple answer: yes | Apr 15, 2013 |
My simple and short answer would be yes!
However, I see this alternative is rather lengthy and costly. If not feasible, I would recommend to do an extended internship at a law firm. That way you will get to know how your customers work and what they need when requesting legal translation services.
PS: Do a Masters in New Zealand - great country and great law schools!!!
| | |
|
|
|
| $500/hour for a translator?In which Universe. That would be quite a good rate the whole day | Apr 15, 2013 |
Only certain places pay more than $500 a day for very qualified conference interpreters. It really sounds more like a pipe dream -- not possible, I think -- perhaps if you spoke a very rare language, then they may pay you $500/hour -- once a year.
It might be wise to get a cheaper law degree. Some public law schools are also great, and cost only around $50,000. If you go to Columbia, or Harvard -- you will end-up with $200,000.00 debt, after you graduate.
| | | | Lucille Kapl (X)
United States
Local time: 05:32
Arabic to English
| the pitfall of not knowing what one doesn't know | Apr 28, 2013 |
Many great points exchanged on this thread so far, and it is wonderful to have the input, here, of Suzanne Deliscar, who is doing a great job, worldwide, in gently sharing what it is that lawyers may add to the quality of legal translations.
I would not advocate that one become an attorney (i.e. get a law degree) solely in order to become a translator of legal materials, but I would also not advocate that individuals who do not have a law degree work independently (i.e., without s... See more Many great points exchanged on this thread so far, and it is wonderful to have the input, here, of Suzanne Deliscar, who is doing a great job, worldwide, in gently sharing what it is that lawyers may add to the quality of legal translations.
I would not advocate that one become an attorney (i.e. get a law degree) solely in order to become a translator of legal materials, but I would also not advocate that individuals who do not have a law degree work independently (i.e., without support/proofing by attorneys) as legal translators.
Moreover, simply getting a law degree, is not, in my view, sufficient for enabling an attorney to work with legal terms/concepts (in multiple languages) comfortably and quickly. I know that fresh out of law school, I still had much to learn, and it was not until I'd practiced for at least 2 or 3 years that I felt really fluent in my own language's legal discourse. I then taught legal writing, and this convinced me completely that a little legal knowledge (in students, e.g.) can be a VERY dangerous thing (:^).
In other words, non-attorneys may feel completely comfortable working with legal materials, and their customers may even be quite pleased with their products, but without being an attorney, a translator of legal materials may experience the pitfall of not knowing what it is s/he does not know about a legal topic. Herein lies the greatest occupational hazard.
Accomplished lawyers are accomplished because they know how to classify various scenarios into the appropriate jurisprudential niche. The principles that govern various scenarios derive from subject areas that are very well categorized and bounded, in most legal systems, and knowing exactly which subject area from which to draw concepts and vocabulary is what makes a lawyer a lawyer, and not a layperson with respect to the law.
There is no doubt but that many non-attorney legal translators are brilliant in their own ways, but having read dozens and dozens of attempted legal translations, now, prepared by non-attorneys, I have to conclude that while many such products are admirable, all too many fail seriously for the translator's over-confidence in what s/he is doing. Diagnosis: These well-intentioned translators have no way of knowing what it is they don't know; and so they forge ahead with confidence and assertiveness. . .And sometimes the resulting errors and oversights are never detected until an attorney has given the item a second look. ▲ Collapse
| | | |
Lucille Kaplan wrote:
There is no doubt but that many non-attorney legal translators are brilliant in their own ways, but having read dozens and dozens of attempted legal translations, now, prepared by non-attorneys, I have to conclude that while many such products are admirable, all too many fail seriously for the translator's over-confidence in what s/he is doing. Diagnosis: These well-intentioned translators have no way of knowing what it is they don't know; and so they forge ahead with confidence and assertiveness. . .And sometimes the resulting errors and oversights are never detected until an attorney has given the item a second look.
Good point. Also, in my experience, insufficient command of advanced grammar and lack of fluency in formal registers tend to be the culprit much of the time. The other problem is the consequences of linguists' frequent distaste with legal language, and attempts to fix it.
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Law degree wise investment for prospective legal translator? | TM-Town | Manage your TMs and Terms ... and boost your translation business
Are you ready for something fresh in the industry? TM-Town is a unique new site for you -- the freelance translator -- to store, manage and share translation memories (TMs) and glossaries...and potentially meet new clients on the basis of your prior work.
More info » |
| | Protemos translation business management system | Create your account in minutes, and start working! 3-month trial for agencies, and free for freelancers!
The system lets you keep client/vendor database, with contacts and rates, manage projects and assign jobs to vendors, issue invoices, track payments, store and manage project files, generate business reports on turnover profit per client/manager etc.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
Translation news
